A 10k iRating 14x iRacing Champion/Real MX5 Driver on a LOGITECH!

Discover the extraordinary journey of Cam Ebben, a 14-time iRacing champion and professional MX5 driver who shatters the myth that expensive gear is necessary for sim racing success. From his first laps at age 11 using a Logitech Wingman wheel bolted to a desk, to reaching the elite 10,000 iRating milestone and winning real-world championships, Cam's story is a masterclass in racing development.

Growing up near Road America with racing in his family's blood, Cam turned to iRacing when he was too young for real motorsport. Using nothing more than a basic wheel and a laptop that struggled to maintain decent frame rates, he developed fundamental skills that would later translate perfectly to the real track. When he finally began karting at 15, Cam immediately demonstrated exceptional ability, eventually winning the Wisconsin State Championship and setting track records in Spec Miata.

What separates Cam's approach from many others is his profound understanding of racing psychology. After plateauing around 8,000 iRating, he completely transformed his mindset – focusing on smarter decision-making, recognizing when aggression is warranted, and understanding that positioning yourself to avoid trouble is just as important as raw speed. This mental shift propelled him from 6,500 to 10,000 iRating in just two months.

Cam offers invaluable insights on the relationship between sim racing and real-world competition, explaining which skills transfer perfectly and where the experiences diverge. As he prepares to move up to professional IMSA racing while maintaining his elite status in the virtual world, Cam represents the new generation of driver developing simultaneously in both realms.

Whether you're a sim racer looking to improve your virtual performance or dreaming of making the leap to real motorsport, this conversation provides the blueprint for success from someone who's mastered both worlds. Follow Cam's journey as he continues to prove that talent and mindset will always outweigh fancy equipment.

Follow Cam Ebben at:

https://www.instagram.com/camebbenracing

https://www.tiktok.com/@camebbenracing

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:34 SimuCube 3 Leak Discussion
• 4:54 Meet Cam Evan: iRacing Champion
• 10:16 From Sim to Real Racing Journey
• 20:32 Ascending to 10k iRating
• 35:45 Mindset & Decision Making in Racing
• 52:07 The Sim-to-Reality Connection

Transcript

Jason: 0:00

This episode is brought to you by Trophy AI, the ultimate performance coach tool for simracers. I'm joined here by Jeff Smart and Cam Evan, a 14-time iRacing champion in a real life MX5 driver. How's everyone doing this week?

Cam: 0:53

Well, don't I feel like the Schmuckatelli in the group? Yeah, I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me. Happy to be here. Let's do this. Awesome, buddy. Welcome to the show. Hell yeah. Only 14 times, huh? Only 14 times. Work in progress. You know, we're having to do every time. Yep.

Jason: 1:07

He's like, I'm working on the I'm working on number 15 right now. That's just what I'm doing.

Cam: 1:11

So it's like patience, young Jedi. Patience.

Jason: 1:14

Yeah, so Cam here, the legend, the the absolute legend is here with us today, and I'm really excited to get get this one going. But uh, you know, do we have any announcements? I don't think so. I think we could focus on the on our special guest here.

Cam: 1:30

And I think we do have a banger of an episode today.

Jason: 1:33

Yeah. Hell yeah. We do have a sim industry update for you. Uh, I think Jeff's gonna cover that.

Cam: 1:38

Yeah, so super interesting news out there coming out of I wouldn't say it's coming out of Simicube, but it is, I guess what we call a leak or an alleged um release of a new product from Simicube. So we have next to no details other than it's super exciting, uh, you know, because we got a simil new Simicube base coming out. So simicube three, um, and we'll say it's the leak of the sport ultimate and pro. And all we know right now is we're looking at 15, 25, and 35 newton means of Newton meters of strength. So 35, that's a that's a that's a tank there.

Jason: 2:17

Yeah, man, that's yeah.

Cam: 2:19

So um 360 watts, uh it comes with a uh the control box, the size is pretty standard, and it comes with a 60-month warranty. So not much coming out or for details, obviously, because this is a leak and how it got out there. That's another story altogether. But uh those that are in the market for this is probably an upgrade from whatever you have, right? I can't imagine there's a lot of people that are getting into sim racing, jumping straight into SimuCube. If you are, hey, good for you. Um, but I think you know, when we talk with SimuCube at the expo, they identify themselves as hey, we are the one when somebody realizes that they're serious about getting to sim racing, we're the ones they look to um as their upgrade. So um if you're interested, if you're looking on the market starting to become in the market, might be a time to pump the brakes a little bit and wait out uh until SimuCube hits the market. You know, you know, we don't who knows. We could be yeah, we don't know when. Could be winter, but if you're patient, this could be time to get some premier gear uh top of line, and and you won't be in it, you'd be pretty much future-proof for a long time with with this base. Jason, anything to add?

Jason: 3:25

Yeah, I will say this. Um it's it there's a lot of rumors out there. Just take it with a grain of salt. Apparently, he's gonna have some wireless connectivity with some wheels or new or new QR system. What I would do is this join the um Simicube 2 Discord so that way you're up to date on news or follow them on the social platforms. But don't forget, guys, next month is or yeah, very soon from now, from at the time of this recording to when it airs, uh, we're looking at the German Expo, the uh Sim Racing German Expo. And they tend to announce things there, you know, they announce the the passive pedal at the American the first time, the the Sim Gaming Expos or you know, Sim Gaming Expo, yeah. So I would I would just keep your eyes peeled and and like Jeff said 100% if there's a newer version of something, it usually, usually is you know the superior product, especially these bases are eight years old already. Um so I'm I'm really uh excited to see what Simicube uh has under their sleeve. So thank you so much, Jeff, for providing that. Um again, these are rumors, and if if something comes out later, um we will update you. Don't crucify us, we're a week at a time podcast. So now that that's out the way, let's go, my man. We have a professional driver here on the show that might not agree what we just said about bases being uh having to have the premium base to be fast. But before we get into that, Cam, welcome to the show. We've been wanting to get you on for a quite a while now, and the uh the expo just kind of got in the way, and then you had mentioned to us that you were racing, which is very important for you to do is to keep racing and keep your career growing. Uh, but just tell us about yourself, man. Like tell us about Cam Ebon. How you know how did you get into sim racing? Tell us a little about um, you know, how'd you find it and how how did you get 14 championships, man? Damn.

Cam: 5:38

Yeah, thanks, guys. Um, so essentially what happened is it started with just the passion for racing, and I'm sure that's how it goes for pretty much anyone in sim racing. You start with an interest in the general sport of it. Um, and that was mainly because my grandfather raced professionally for many years, right around the time that I was growing up. So I was around the track all the time. I live only an hour away from Road America, which I'm super fortunate to be that close to. So multiple visits every single year. Um my father raced as well, he still does, you know, my uncle as well. Like it's just such a family affair. So for me, growing up at the track, it became an interest of mine instantly. But, you know, certain people start racing at a pretty young age, but you know, for me it was a little later, and so there was a point where, hey, I'm a little too young to kind of be on track doing real racing, but I have this passion for it and I want a way to be able to prepare myself when that day comes, right? And so for that regard, like it was basically then sim racing caught my interest, i racing specifically. And uh I joined when I was 11 years old, not sure if I think that might be a little too young to be actually done the game technically. But um we'll see. I know you had I know you had Nim on the podcast, but let's let's hope we yeah, Nim turn tune out now, buddy. Right. Nim is watching, he's like, huh? Yeah, so yeah, I started when I was 11 because it was a little too early to get into go-karts or any sort of like real life stuff. So it was a way to kind of learn how to drive and learn racecraft and understand racing lines. And I think any of the success that I had, especially just starting out in karting, I'd attest that all to my years spent on sim racing leading up to that. Because I didn't start carting until I was 15, and I was on iRacing since I was 11. And in that time frame, I learned so much about just racing in general. Like, I feel like I would have been a fish out of water if I jumped straight into a go-kart with no knowledge of even like racing lines, racecraft, breaking zones, apexes, like anything like that. You know, that was all super helpful to learn in the years leading up to getting into my first real race. So yeah.

Jason: 7:31

That is, you see, this is my favorite part of the show, and I think Jeff can definitely agree, is listening to stories like this. You know, um a lot of a lot of kids growing up, you know, I I want to respond to that. Is they have this misconception that you need to grow into racing or you need to grow up, but you're telling me that you started on a sim and then you moved over to racing. I know racing is in your bloodline though, but that that does carry some some racing spirit in you. Um but I I have one follow-on question to this. What made you choose iRacing?

Cam: 8:10

Well, you know, you're looking at the time frame of like 2014, 2015, and I just don't really feel like there was many other, you know, sims that were really jumping forward at that time, and I could be mistaken, but at least for whatever reason, I had seen different maybe YouTube videos. I can't really remember at the time, but just like an amount of iRacing content was kind of getting tossed at me at that kind of young age. Uh, I believe I I believe I knew somebody at the time, like a an older kind of mentor figure to me at the time, had an iRacing account, and that was kind of you know being something that was talked about when we him and I had conversations, and so it just for whatever reason, it was just what was presented to me at that age. And you know, I I personally believe it's still the best like quality of like racing, and mainly that's because of the amount of people on the service. You can go into pretty much any race at any time and have someone to race in, or like the Mazda MX5, my you know, my specialty series, right? Like probably 100 entries minimum. Oh, dude. Sometimes 400 five.

Jason: 9:11

It doesn't matter what time of day, where. Um, I don't know how to drive the MS5, right, at all. I struggle with this car.

Cam: 9:21

A lot of people don't believe right. Yeah, but hey, that was basically what kind of drew me into iRacing is just the amount of users on the service and knowing that you could get an authentic racing experience. You know, the the some of the endorsements from the real life pros at the time also added to that.

Jason: 9:36

And seeing, you know, the and it was presented to you, you know. You you saw an opportunity, like, hey, I'm 11 years old, I can't get in the carts, so how do I so how do I do this? This is what I want to do. You know, that that right there is is what I'm trying to allude to is like, hey, if you whoever's watching this, this episode, if if you have dreams, you know, we have living proof right here on the show about someone that that had dreams of racing, and and yeah, he was too young to do it, but you know, he used the sim to kind of keep those, keep, you know, develop the skill and then just laid it on track. Uh it's amazing. Amazing story.

Cam: 10:14

It's a cool story. Hey Kev, I got a question for you. Can you talk to me about when you're 11 years old, what is your we'll use the term air quotes, rig because you're 11. And then talk to me about your progression to what it is today. So my first rig, if you want to call it that, was a Logitech Wingman. It's a red Logitech wheel from like early 2000s, I think. Uh, just bolted onto the desk. And then the pedals that came with it were just a gas and a brake, super flimsy plastic pedals. Uh, I had that set up in my dining room, and then I had the laptop that I was racing on. I had it propped on top of a box and then pushed up against like a vase paperweight thing to like keep it in place kind of super minimal. I actually raced on a laptop. I raced on that same laptop until 2019, and then I actually got a PC, uh, but the desk rig still stayed. You know, I eventually upgraded to a G27, but you know, if you ever take a look at my social media, it's something that I make sure that people know is like this is what I've been using up until this point, and it's very surprising to certain people because, like you alluded to, you know, the championships I've been able to win and the kind of the stature I've been able to build on iRacing, it's all been done on a desk rig. So progression-wise, you know, the equipment hasn't gone you know super out of touch with just the desk rig. But uh, I do want to throw out there that I have partnered with VRS who are basically overhauling all of my sim equipment. So very, very shortly I'll shout out to VRS. Yeah, exactly. I'll be officially removed from the desk racing. And there's nothing wrong with that, obviously, but I in my opinion, you know, getting a chance to go for some more you know realistic and more immersive equipment, I think, will you know not only help me as a driver, but also just improve my experience because certain things on the Logitech, you know, you don't have the same feel. Like I think a load cell brake pedal would be amazing because on the Logitech it's just the uh potentiometer or whatever that is just basically how far you push it and not pressure related. So yeah, so it's tough to be consistent sometimes. Uh we were talking before the show about racing the peacup. Like I usually don't dabble in that because it it's it's rough to try to master because the braking on that is super, super uh you know, finicky.

Jason: 12:23

It's very unforgiving that peacup.

Cam: 12:25

Yeah, but it's tough to try to really find that limit when I'm but honestly, bro.

Jason: 12:30

You know, if it I just want to say this you you kind of earn, in my opinion, you kind of earned the the right to upgrade, if you may. Yeah because you these are these are things you can actually use, you know, and and you understand fundamental. You you're a 14-time world champion on a Logitech.

Cam: 12:50

That is that sink in for that.

Jason: 12:52

That makes me feel bad.

Cam: 12:53

You don't need good expensive gear to drive fast.

Jason: 12:58

You don't need expensive stuff. This is living proof right here on the show.

Cam: 13:01

I think at the end of the day, in my opinion, you know, there's certain equipment that I think is beneficial to have because from a consistency standpoint, like if you have a load cell brake, you know, that's something I'm very eager to try because you can really pinpoint, hey, this is the exact amount of pressure that I applied, it's easy to replicate. But at the end of the day, I think it's just really what you mesh with the most and what you're able to really just become accustomed with. And I think really anything is possible from there, right? Like it maybe if you have a bad PC and you have like low frame rate, it's hard to race and you like lagging out all the time, that's different. But I think for the most part, like you hear stories, a lot of the people on the Oval side, like in the the esports uh Coca-Cola NASCAR series, like a lot of them are still on Logitechs. It's just a weird, you know, type of thing where if it's what you're accustomed to and you're able to make the most out of your time on the sim and really get the get the most out of your time on track, honestly, when you're when you're playing iRacing, and if that's with the Logitech or if that's with a direct drive wheel, like you know, so be it. But I think it's really what what you mesh with the most and what you become accustomed with, and you know, whether you want to upgrade and try to see if you can accustom with something else even more or not. You know, I think that's what it really comes down to at the end of the day, is just you know what you like and how comfortable you feel using your equipment.

Jason: 14:14

I would like to follow up on you with you when you do get the gear because I'm always nervous about adding gear to the rig because I feel like it messes with my muscle memory, right? Because when you get accustomed to something for so long and you change, this happened to us at the expo. We went to the expo. Yeah, and I'm like, I can I can drive the hell out of this car. I drive this car, I drove this car for 24 hours in the Nuremberg, and then you go over there and the pedals are not set correctly or they're not set to my standard, you know. And it made me, you know, it it was punishing, basically, you know, humbling too.

Cam: 14:51

You're like, I'm in like a hundred fifty thousand dollar rig, and not even touching, you know, lap time system normal in my own rig that's you know, an eighth of that price or a tenth of that price. Right. Uh yeah, I I think for sure, without a doubt, there'll be a learning curve. You know, it'll be something new to adjust to, just the feeling in my hands of having direct drive versus just the the uh I believe it's bell driven or gear driven. The Logitech gear driven gear driven. Okay, got it. Yeah, yeah. Um so like feeling that difference, and of course the the different pedals. I think there's a learning curve to be had, um, or sitting in a GT cockpit rig versus uh office chair that rolls when I hit the brakes sometimes, right? Like I think there will be a learning curve for sure, but I I'd like to imagine that you know the sky's the limit, you know, from here on out. And so of course I'm looking for the city.

Jason: 15:37

No, yeah, yeah, but yeah, you'll adjust you, yeah. You you race real cars now. This is very different. You you have two points of data, you know, it's not one. So I tell you what, it will make the experience a lot more fun because the immersion is gonna strike you in a way that that you you know it might make you, it might convince you a little further that you're in that you're in your car um when you're racing. So I'm excited for you. Uh can't wait to hear an update on that. But we'll move on to the next uh I mean I know the next question, I know you race MX5. Is is that the only class that you race, or is that the most? Is that you know what class do you race the most? Is it just MX5?

Cam: 16:22

Yep. So currently I race in the spec MX5 class uh in the sports car club of America. It's technically an amateur level league, you know, throughout the United States. Um, and so that is the newest class added to the SECA. It's got you know six-figure corporate backing from Mazda Corporate, and uh they use it as kind of the the scouting grounds, you know, to scout up-and-coming talent so they can offer them scholarships. Uh, and basically at the end of each year, you know, they invite you know some of the top young talent that drives a Mazda and gives them a chance to compete for a scholarship to then move into the professional MX5 Cup, you know, ran through IMSA, it's the iRacing MX5 car, you know, that that uh MX5. And so, you know, a lot of the people that race in this class, you know, that's all kind of what we're working, working towards is trying to get a scholarship or move into that that pro level and really start to get that jump that our career needs, right? To to continue to progress up the ranks. So it's a super competitive class, lots of backing from Mazda. Um, and they yeah, they use it to kind of scout up and coming talent. And so, you know, for for me, it's been you know, Mazda through and through. I started before that. I ran Spec Miata, which is an older version of the MX5. Um, and I did that for a couple of years. That's what I started car racing with and then moved into Spec MX5 two years ago. So um I've been you know kind of at that amateur level for the time being, but you know, next year I have my sights set. I'm moving into the IMSA level and you know, starting my pro racing career from there. But yeah, it's only been pretty much Mazda, you know, MX5s or different variants of that car. Um and on top of that, uh, also in a Miata, uh, I recently was picked up by a local Champ Car Endurance Racing team. Uh shout out to my friends over at Parts Badger. Um they field two cars in the Champ Car Endurance series, and they, you know, they saw what I was doing uh over on my side of things and you know wanted me to be a part of their program as a fellow Wisconsinite and you know help bring them some results. So we had our first race out at Mid Ohio two weeks ago, and then we have one uh at Road America uh about a month from now. So uh that's another opportunity to kind of take on some endurance racing stuff versus uh sprint racing, um, where the races are only like 30 minutes instead of uh what I've just decided to start doing now, which are like eight hours with with the champ car team. So uh it's definitely a new a new challenge, but another opportunity. Um, but again, we do drive a Mazda MX5 in that as well. So I can't seem to get away from the Mazdas at this point. That's a lot of Mazda driving. Yeah, exactly. That's still badass though. That is so awesome, man. Eight-hour rip is just that's pretty cool. Hey, so follow up to you know, you talk you talked to us about some of your racing experience. Um what's your best what's your favorite so far in your young career? What's your favorite memory of racing real cars? And talk to me about you know some of your favorite memories racing, you know, sim racing. You get a lot of experience with the 14th champions. Give me two of your favorite memories. So, favorite memory uh of real racing. I would say it it for some people would be like a race win, but for me, this was a really symbolic pole position that I got. Um, it was simultaneously the track record and Spec Miata at Road America, and it's still standing today. And it it it goes back many years to what I mentioned where I was basically at Road America since I was zero years old. There was a picture of me as like an infant sitting on my dad's like race car hood, like laying there, and they snapped a photo of me. Like, it has been like my home away from home, and I've grown up watching you know all my family members, you know, do battle on this racetrack. You know, my grandpa, like I said, raced professionally, won national championships with SECA. Also it's just like Road America and being you know part of part of the environment growing up there at the racetrack, uh, has been so you know pivotal in my growth and just my interest in racing. Like I basically credit it to like all of my passion. And so two years ago at an event called the June Sprints, it's basically the biggest amateur race of the year, aside from our national championship race. Um, and so at that event, which there was uh roughly 60 drivers in my class and the spec me out of class, I got the pole position there and it was just it was just uh, you know, to also set the track record was still standing today, but it was almost just like Okay, it was just something Yeah, yeah. It was something just about it, you know, getting that pole position in front of the home crowd, in front of you know all my family members, and also just knowing that I once was on the other side of the fence watching in the bleachers, you know, for hours on end every day, just one day hoping I could be out there racing on the real track and to to start on pole position for that race.

Jason: 20:43

Uh it just a dream come true, basically.

Cam: 20:45

Literally, yeah. You're just leading this field of 60 people out on the to the green flag, and there was no feeling like it. So for me, like you know, none of my my wins, my wins are up there too, the wins that I've gotten are definitely good memories, but like none of them really packed packed the punch like in my heart that that that pole position did. So I don't know, that was probably my favorite, my favorite memory in in real life racing, especially like being on track like as a driver. On the sim racing side, um there's there's quite a few. Um I'll say in 2024, uh, I won the 24 hours of Daytona. It was the top split race in the fourth time slot, I believe, uh, with my friends over at Parallel Racing Group. Shout out to them. Uh, we were able to get it done in the Lamborghini in the GT3 class. Um, and so I I'd say that was uh a bit of a a bit of a highlight if if I'm being honest. But that uh but then also that first time I hit 10k i rating.

Jason: 21:40

Uh when you whoa, 10k i rating.

Cam: 21:43

Yep.

Jason: 21:45

We're gonna get in, we're gonna get into that one very soon.

Cam: 21:48

So I'd say either when in the 24 or when it first hit 10k i rating, because the the moment that your i rating goes from from four digits to five digits, nothing like yeah, 10k.

Jason: 21:58

I love it, no big.

Cam: 21:58

It was just it was a it was a crazy feeling because you look at you know, you're sitting there looking at the the UI and it still says 9992 or whatever it was at the time, and then you're just waiting for it to update, and then the results come in and you see it switches to five digits. And uh I don't know, it was just a crazy feeling because you know, lots of lot as you can imagine, lots of hard work went into that. So honestly, yeah, honestly, I'd say it's up there for the sim racing moment between winning the 24 and hitting 10k. Um tough to say, but I don't know. The I'd say the 10k was more fruitful, right? You spend months like grinding, getting it up to that, as any as anyone does, as anyone does, right? And so just to see it, you know, come true and to see you know that that I don't know, it just seems like it just kind of taken you know my you know my sim racing uh success to like the next level, honestly, just to have that kind of extra extra stat added to my name. So yeah. Cam, I gotta follow on to the question. So after you cross the line for the Daytona, 24 hours at Daytona with your team, I assume you're in your house, everybody else geographically separated from your team. What happens in your house? What happens to you? I I do you get up and you're like good. Or if you be like, yeah, I'm pretty tired, I'm gonna go to bed. Like, what is that? I I know what it would be for me. Here we go.

Jason: 23:25

Here it comes.

Cam: 23:26

Uh you know, I was pretty tired. Uh I finished the race, which meant I was, you know, up pretty early. And then we basically had a system where one person had to at least be like on the spotter's box when someone else was in the car. So like I think I was already on a couple hours before that, so maybe like 7 a.m. I was on. And then I did like the graveyard stint from like 2 a.m. to 4. So I was pretty beat. I was pretty beat. Uh, but to finish the race was awesome to cross the line and be the one to really get us there to the finish, and then you know, doing some donuts. And honestly, like first priority after that was taking screenshots so we could post on socials. Um was kind of the first that's kind of the first thing. Um, and then I I definitely went downstairs, I I think, and just let let the family know. I believe they were up at the time and just be like, hey, you know, made this happen. You know, I was keeping them posted, you know, throughout the course of the night uh and throughout the course of the event. Um, but we had been comfortably P1 for like most of the second half of the race, so it was kind of managing it from there. Um, but yeah, yeah. So I don't know. And then I definitely went back to bed. But it was uh Exactly. I'm going to sleep, y'all. It was definitely a mixture of celebrating it with the boys that were that were still awake, if any of them, I don't remember, and then letting the family know and taking some screenshots and then hitting the sheets was kind of the turn of events there. But yeah, what what about you? You said you knew what your answer would be. I'm dude. I I I mean, I'd have taken my shirt off done float, you know, flip around. And I I'd have told the wife and she'd be like, that's great, take the trash out. Yeah.

Jason: 24:54

You know, it's like I would have found I would have found like a swimming pool somewhere and just dive in it with the suit on, do a Danny uh Danny Ricardo or something, you know.

Cam: 25:03

Yeah, oh, but you have to remember it was January in Wisconsin, so it wasn't.

Jason: 25:07

It don't matter, bro.

Cam: 25:09

The water's frozen, man. I'm gonna do it.

Jason: 25:12

We're getting hurt then. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Touche, touche. Oh my god. So wow, this is insane. I mean, our next question, right? It it kind of backs it up a little bit, right? Um, when you started, when you started at 11 years old racing on the simulator, um, when did you realize that hey, I'm I'm actually competitive. I'm good, I'm I'm good enough to race um with the big boys, and you know, when when did that when did you realize that uh as you're you know during your i racing career?

Cam: 25:48

Yeah, it came much later than when I first started. I really just did hosted all the like the most insane combinations of like hosted races. I'd think of just the most obscure things. I'd race like the Volkswagen Jetta against the Lotus 79 at like a figure eight track or something. Like I I loved doing hosted races like hosting and just like you're just having fun, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like I I don't even think I got out of rookies for the first year just because I didn't even do officials, maybe. Um, and then I I I surrounded myself with you know people that weren't really trying to get the most out of the sim. I'll start with that, right? So naturally, you know, you don't take it as seriously. And you were 11. Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and so it was a weird thing with like my younger self. Like, I would almost try to be like low splits on purpose. Um so I didn't get an actual like great read on myself for a little while until I basically let me think here. Um well to put it into perspective, I would like if I happened to get into like a race that wasn't like bottom split, I would usually just leave to like keep myself at the bottom split. This was like when I was like 12 or 13 now. I don't know, it was some just weird, like I don't think I was afraid of competition, but maybe I just wanted to like pad the stats up. I don't really know. Like trying to just race in those really low splits. Well then what ended up happening is eventually, uh I want to say probably four years into iRacing, then I I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna actually try to be like good at the like good and actually try to excel in the sim, right? Because you know, hosteds or low split races, whatever, I was still learning a lot about racing and racecraft and racing lines. And so like the lessons I was learning were very applicable to real life stuff, but now I wanted to actually be someone that was respectable on the sim, not like bottom split feeder, right? So um from there, uh it was like late 2018-ish. I was like, all right, I'm just gonna race, I'm going to get up to uh top split if possible, but at least I'm just gonna keep racing. And if I, you know, if I go down, if I go up, whatever, I'm just gonna race and learn and put myself up against you know the best people that I possibly can be put against, whether that's just the way the splits get ranked or I hop in a hosted race with a better driver or something, just to learn and try to become the best that I can. And so over time, it was really just surrounding myself with faster people, racing repetitively, and then finally learning in in competitive splits how to become a better driver. And so I would say early 2019, I started going like 4k, 5k-ish. Um and so from there it was essentially realizing hey, I can start winning races. Um back up just a little bit.

Jason: 28:43

You said you went from you went to you went up to 5k.

Cam: 28:48

Just glazed over that.

Jason: 28:49

You know how hard it did. You know, I'm struggling to just to get up to 3k, you know, or or let alone 2k. I mean, that's still, you know, I well he's just like clicking.

Cam: 29:01

Yeah, he's like, oh yeah, 5k. Yeah, yeah. There was uh keep going.

Jason: 29:07

I'm just I'm reacting to what I'm hearing right now.

Cam: 29:09

Yeah, there was a there was a time frame where I really started locking in, if you will, and just um racing quite a bit uh after school or on a snow day or or what you what have you, right? Um and I was doing a lot of racing and uh mainly was was focusing on the MX5 at that time and it just started w meshing with me and it started taking off. And I don't know, something about just the the way that car behaves and the way that I was able to mesh with it, it it was great, and along the way I was just yeah, able to kind of skyrocket. I I remember uh early 2019 there was a a week of the production car challenge at a very random uh road course called is the East version of the Pocono like track. They have like a road course in the infield there. I was like randomly super. Good there. They've like never raced there. Like it's been like six years now. The series like it has never come back. But I was just grinding that week, I remember, and I went, I think, like 3,000 up to 4,000 in just that one week. And then from there it was like you must have been killing the dude. Yeah, it was like that. Something, yeah. Something about the thing. Yeah. Um, and then I I kind of plateaued off at like 5k uh because until like I mentioned, late 2019, I was just on a laptop, and so what would end up happening sometimes is terrible screen freezes because this is like a pretty bad laptop that had a really hard time running iRacing, and so maybe I'd do like 10 races really well or win five races or something, but then the next race I've got a screen freeze and then I crash into a wall because I can't see anything, right? And it was a couple of like those a couple of those like uncontrollable things, or like or like sometimes when I was this would be like when I was younger, but like my my parents would have like a limit on the Wi-Fi and I'd be in a race and then it would hit midnight in the middle of the race and it would cut me off. So like you know, just just some like kind of random somebody just went, yeah, yeah. So just like kind of random like lagging out or or you know screen freezing. And so I ended up kind of being limited in that regard. I'd be I'd kind of be around like 5k, high 4Ks. Um and then for Christmas 2019, uh I got a PC for the first time, and it I was getting more I was getting more than like 30 frames in a race. It was amazing. I could see I could see things while driving.

Jason: 31:37

You see, Jeff, we have it too well, bro. We got it too good over here.

Cam: 31:41

That's my reason why I'm not fast, is I have too high a frame rate.

Jason: 31:45

It's too smooth, bro.

Cam: 31:46

Too smooth. Um yeah, so then once I got the PC, uh, it really started to mesh. I I knew I could actually do races without you know having a screen freeze. You know, I was loading into races really fast. Uh, everything was just you know being much smoother on me. So from there I got to about 8,000 I rating. Uh this was 2020, um, and then stayed like 7k, 8k range for for a while. Uh and then I had kind of like plateaued like 8k, 7k, 6k. Like I was kind of in an interesting headspace where like I had raced quite a bit, but maybe wouldn't make the best decisions. And you know, honestly, there's something to be said about racing like too much, honestly. And sometimes stuff gets in your head or you build bad habits. Um, and so I was I was kind of just stuck like in this mental block of like six to eight K I rating, which is still like amazing, obviously, like comparatively. But something about like I just I knew I wanted to do more, but I just I don't know, in my head, in my mind, something just wasn't letting me like be the person that was you know smart enough with decision making, not getting themselves into crashes, not self-spinning, not blowing their engine. Like something in my mind just was stopping me from doing that. So I ended up kind of like taking a bit of like a step back, like a like a mental cleanse, if you will. Um, and that was at the same time that like real life racing was really starting to pick up. I was traveling more, was becoming more successful, devoting more time to that. Um, and so then you loop around to 2023 is kind of where we pick up, and I'm about 6.5k at the time. Um, and I kind of get back into like I don't know, I get back into eye racing, but I'm a little bit differently approaching it this time and just smarter decisions and realizing, you know, sometimes one move isn't worth it at this spot, you know, there's many laps to go. So something that just clicked differently when I came back in 2023, and it kind of just overhauled my my existence on the sim, and then I was just making better decisions, being way more consistent. It's probably like this is kind of the the range where I took it from you know 8k to 10k, right? It was just a a change in mindset, and I think that's the thing for a lot of people is is mindset things because you know, if you if you think about things a certain way and it's it's to the detriment of yourself, you know, you put yourself in bad situations or you just don't, you know, think through greater picture uh on certain scenarios, it can really limit you. So for me, it was kind of coming to coming to terms with what I had kind of done wrong as a driver in the past and kind of realizing what I needed to do differently if I wanted to kind of take off from there. So 2023 came back uh in September at about 6.5k, and mid-November I was 10k. Um, and so that's a hell of a jump, dude. It was a quick race. It was a quick journey. It was a lot of racing, don't get it, don't get me wrong, but just I probably raced the same amount several years. Oh, sorry, several years back, but it was just like completely different approaches to to the racing. And I think that's what makes a difference for people that really end up wanting to become, you know, a high I-rating driver, really better themselves, is really perfecting the mental side of iRacing. If you want to be kind of on that that elite level, if you will, or you want to be kind of like you just covered our next question, actually, with that that we were just gonna ask you.

Jason: 35:07

That is freaking awesome. Want to have a live coach available on demand? With Trophy AI, you'll be able to practice with Manso AI at your convenience. A real-time coach in your headphones to navigate and guide you through the track, helping you achieve race pace. This tool is awesome as it provides full brake, throttle, and steering telemetry on screen with a live review getting you ready for your next big race. Check links to Trophy AI in the description and also use Shicane12 in all caps for a 12% discount. You know, and I do agree with you about accepting your own stuff. Like you have to come to terms with you may have made the wrong decision and you have to accept it and learn from it. So I I'm just I just want to say this, man. 11 years old to the age you're in you're at now, dude. You had to have a mindset, you know, for that age, you know, a very mature mindset. I mean, it it's okay to be 11 and have fun on the on a on a sim. Yeah, but then you took it to a next level like very quickly. I I just have one follow-on question with that story. Um, you mentioned 2020. Was there any differences? I wasn't on iRacing in 2020. Was there, you know, you know what happened in 2020 at the pandemic and all this stuff. Um, it may or may not have been um relevant to you because you had such a high i rating, but I know the service probably saw an influx of people coming in. Is there anything different that happened in 2020 um during your you know career at on iRacing?

Cam: 36:43

Uh, like you said, just an influx of of new members and just the whole simulator just getting you know a whole new level of of prosperity and popularity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally, totally. Uh I'd say, you know, there weren't many differences as far as you know, they didn't really end up changing anything, just a lot more people got onto the service. Um, you know, before COVID, I would say maybe like 100,000, 200,000 members on the service. Now I think they're over a million uh members. I think the account numbers go up to like 1.1 million or something. There's you know, it's just if you look at it, there's those graphs of it, you know, like the user base before, and then like when COVID hits, and you know, in 2020, just like straight up super, super big, super big takeoff. And I think that's where a lot of people had kind of learned about iRacing because you know, you have real life drivers that are you know not able to race in real life, so they you know, their series puts on an iRacing League. You had the NASCAR one, you had the IndyCar one, I think there was a V8 supercar one, you got you know F1 drivers who maybe don't have like an official esports series, I don't know, but like uh as far as like they had real life drivers racing on a sim. I don't know if that really happened, but I just know like I I I I witnessed you know F1 drivers hopping on iRacing just to play the the SIM and just to race when they couldn't in real life, and so it's just so much publicity, and people can't be on a real racetrack, and it was a way to you know kind of that fancy, if you will, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it did reach out.

Jason: 38:07

And that's where all the gear came from, too. You know, the gear came from those drivers that could not make it on track. And yeah, we still had gear here and there, but uh the it kind of took off after that.

Cam: 38:19

Yeah, you know, totally yeah. I mean, I'm guilty uh of joining during COVID. I remember watching Travis Pastrana during the COVID doing he he was a goofball, he's in his helmet, his whole race is a good thing. Oh, I love Travis. He's sitting there racing at his desk, shifting gears on a screen. I was like, what is he doing? A couple googles. I'm like, holy shit, and that's how I got into it. Yeah, so I'm I mean, I'm part of that little tick up in 2020. Okay, so uh I you know, you talked a little bit about hey, decision making is kind of what helped you a lot. But if you were to kind of give one tip to or what you see the vast majority of people of how they could improve um or tip for their I rating or just be a better racer in general, you know, being that you know you are at you know a top half of 1% of the top, what do you see the the the masses on the best way that they could improve? I would say, you know, realize that most situations, whether they're your fault or not, you know, when it comes to an incident, uh, you know, everyone has a part that they play in that situation. Uh I I think of it as, you know, you you want to think ahead about what could transpire in a situation, and then also realize that, like I said, you have a part to play in it. You know, like let's say you, you know, have a driver who's maybe been looking a little risky, they're like four-tenths back on you, you don't think they're gonna dive in the next corner, so you leave it open, right? Even though you know they've been a little risky, you'll you'll open up the corner, you'll leave the inside open, and of course they lunge it in and they crash you, right? It's their fault. They're the ones in the wrong for the incident, but you could have also maybe done something to like prevent that or at least not put yourself in that position to be wrecked, you know, just covering off the inside, realizing, hey, you know, it's really just comes down to thinking in the moment, right? Like, hey, this person is looking a little bit, a little bit sus, they've been a little dodgy. Maybe I'm not gonna leave the inside open, right? Like, sure, they're at fault for causing the crash, but at the end of the day, like once the race is over, what is yelling at them in voice chat really do? Like you're DNF, do you know what I mean? So you're sitting in the pits, yeah. Right. So there's certain things that you learn, and you know, for me, I think, you know, part of it is like um I 100% this is like the this is the um the the parameters that I sign up for being at this I reading level, but like for me, you know, like it's pretty much I have to win to gain any I reading points. So like if I get second, I lose, right? So there's a lot of there's a lot of thinking through scenarios of like, okay, you know, how can I try to defend this win the best I can, or how can I like minimize the losses? Like I think when you have at a certain level, when you have a lot more on the line, or at least when there's a lot more to lose, you think through things a lot more a lot more ad advanced, or you think of them a lot more ahead. Like realizing, hey, you know, if if I don't defend here, he might try to go for the move. But also it's lap two, if I defend too hard, everyone catches us. Maybe I'll let this person lead, follow them for a bit, let us pull away, and then go for the win later on. You know, you you can think about those things a little differently. And I'm not I'm not saying high high-rating people are the only people who can think that way, but that is an advice that I would say a lot of high high-rating people share, and that's something that they understand, and that is something that I would like to pass on to people that want to know how they can improve themselves because you know, you look at people who just always blame everyone else, and sure. I I think I think Nim might have touched on this too a little bit. He did.

Jason: 41:53

You you know, you watched the show, you watched the uh I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cam: 41:57

Of course I did.

Jason: 41:58

Yeah, thank you. Hell yeah, we got a fan here, man. That's what's up, man.

Cam: 42:02

Yeah, yeah.

Jason: 42:02

So that's what I was I was about to tell you. You mentioned something very similar to what he did, and to what he said, and it makes sense, you know.

Cam: 42:10

You know, Jason and Cam, it's interesting, Cam, that you brought this up because that takes no practice. That doesn't take any time. You know, it's just a mental decision that you make. Hey, I don't need to drive this car past my ability level. Hey, I don't need to dive on this guy. I just need for a month, I need to make better decisions on just racing. And it always usually works out, dude. I mean, sorry, go ahead, Jeff. No, you you go ahead. I I was about done.

Jason: 42:42

Yeah, yeah, it's I was gonna like follow up with you, Jeff, like saying it it makes sense because nine times out of ten, the times that I let the reckless guy that's doing reckless things not necessarily let him take the position, but not put myself in a position where I can crash him or we can get into a wreck. And sometimes they pass me, and a lap or five laps later, I see him on the side of the road. Like, I'm like, yeah, you know, things happen sometimes. Um that happened to us in the 24-hour race that we did. You know, there was two guys and they were they were doing a lot of crazy things on the on the nords, and it we didn't let up. And if we would have let up, we probably would have um you know had a chance to evade what happened in front of us and we crashed them because it was just too close. So but it's also not an easy feat either, you know, it's not that it's time consuming, but in my opinion, it's not easy to be disciplined that way because I don't know. I I think that a lot of us want to go in there and we want to win and we want to win. We want to be a high I-rating because if if if I can race with other you know, higher rating people, then I feel a lot more I feel safer around them because I know that they struggle to get there just as I struggled to get there. And I know that they care about their I rating, they're not gonna do anything stupid, even though they do two stupid things sometimes. But it's um I agree with you, Cam though. I'm not saying I don't. I agree with you. I I just think that it's that is something that you have to prepare your brain for, you know, because when you're behind the wheel and you're a few laps in and you know, you're pushing um and you're looking at deltas and all this stuff, sometimes you're like, man, if I can push a little harder here, and then that little push harder gets you next to the other guy, and then things happen, you know. It's just race incidents, but the 10k driver here, the 14 14 time champion. Um I you know, lots of respect to you. It's hard, man. I I have a friend that's uh a big shout out to John. He's part of our SRC team, and he is that guy that um 5,000 5,000 I rating goes down to 4,000, goes up to 45, goes down to 4,000. And if he's not on the poll, it's a hundred points away from him every time or any any any little incident that he gets into, it's like, oh yeah, I lost 150 I rating. And I'm like, damn, that's a lot.

Cam: 45:31

Well that's wild, that's wild when he said if I don't win, if you don't win, I rating goes down. Yeah, yep, yeah, it it's a yeah, pretty, pretty rare to gain for a second place. Um granted, granted, you know, I'm not racing necessarily in like the humongous GT3 level SOF races or things where like the strength of field is like 6,000, but even like in still like it'll be you know 4,000 SOF races or high 3,000 into 5,000 SOF, you know, in MX5 stuff mainly. And so it's pretty rare to to gain for second place just at the level where I'm at. Uh maybe if the person that wins is pretty close to my I rating, because you know, I believe in the kind of the back end of like the ELO system, you know, if if the the if the algorithm presumes that you know the driver I'm racing with, the driver that beats me, right? Like if they're pretty close to my I rating level, you know, the the sim obviously assumes that we're pretty close on skill level. And so, you know, therefore, um, therefore, if they if they assume that you know that we're pretty close on skill level, you know, they are a little more forgiving versus like if I lose to someone who is like I I mean 1200, let's say I lose to someone who's 1200 I rating, and so you know, on the back end of there where it you should not be losing to a 1200 is what the system says. Right, yeah, because it it it basically you know predicts me going into the race as like major overdog, just based on I rating points at least, right? This 1200 driver could be insane, but you know, as far as the sim is concerned, you know, since my I rating is you know 10,000 and theirs is 1000, you know, I should be like a major overdog. So to lose that is when there's a loss. And so just generally in the races that I'm in, most of the people that you know, if I lose to them, if I come in second place, if I crash, right? Like usually I'm a significant enough of an overdog in terms of how the how the sim is kind of perceiving it that yeah, I'll I'll lose for for a second place finish. So but uh like I said, it's not something I'm like, oh my gosh, my life is terrible. I that like I completely far from I signed up I signed up I signed up for this. I signed up for this, right? Like it's just like it's the I guess it's the risk that I take from from doing races, but it's something that I completely understand as well. It's like, hey, this is what I've worked towards, and this is kind of part of it now. I won't say it's a consequence, but it's at least a side effect of like, hey, you know, I've gotten to this level, and if I want to keep growing, I I gotta I gotta win now.

Jason: 48:01

You know, that's how you have to, yeah. You gotta be a winner, yes. But it's gonna be a winner.

Cam: 48:05

It's what I signed up for getting to the irritating that I'm at. I knew it when I was working towards it. I knew that it was something that was going to become you know part of it as a side effect, uh, would be you know have to win more often than not. And so not complaining about it, just yeah, just saying how it is. And so, yeah, but like to your point, like it has led, you know, to me personally, learning a lot about how to approach situations better, and I think it applies to really anybody because, in my opinion, you could be maybe in a lower split, not the top split, but if you put yourself in better positions, better situations, stay out of trouble. Sounds cliche, but you'll probably advance up the ranks, and then you know, you get into a top split race eventually, or at least a better match race. And so you're at a at a race where you're maybe one of the lower cars in the split, but you know, you've learned a lot about racecraft, you're able to race with better drivers and finish these races, and so you're getting reps, maybe trailing at first, trailing behind these faster drivers, and just learning over time. And that was the big thing for me to become proficient on the sim was you know, realizing at first I'm not gonna be the greatest of all time. And I'm not I'm still not, but I'm just saying, like, at the time goat, stop pretty close to it though. At the time, like I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be the goat. I'm not the goat right now. Like, I but there's people out here that are better than me at this at this at this uh you know race at this track or in this car, whatever, right? Like I'm going to try my best to learn from them, hang with them if I can. And maybe at first, someone who was beating you every race, you start to kind of reel them in, you start to figure things out, and then you know, maybe by the end of that week or something, you can hang with them for a race, and you learn a lot from my opinion, you know, practical race driving is the most beneficial, in my opinion. I don't I I close practice is good too, like private practice, but I think you learn the most from a race scenario because mindset is different because it's like heat of the moment, but also it's much more competitive. You have the environment of the race, and you're learning how to race alongside people, how to follow, and then you're gonna be able to do it.

Jason: 50:11

And everybody wants to win, you know, everybody has a goal.

Cam: 50:14

Yep, and then you can also get exposed uh sorry, exposed to um faster drivers depending on your split, you know. But you know, over time, you know, you'll start to you know be doing these races with people and learning from faster drivers, and you know, you'll become you know the better driver that you strive to be, in my opinion. And that that's something I stand by, right? Like I I do more official races than most of the people on the service, or at least more than the average person, but I I I attest that to a lot uh uh or sorry, I I a lot of what I learned, I I attest to that, right? Like doing you know a certain amount of official races and just being involved and doing races, even if there's some risk that I take on, you know, I've at this point pretty much been in like every type of race scenario, race situation, and uh I've learned how to attack, you know, side by side into this corner, three wide up this straightaway, who's gonna come out on top into this first breaking zone? Like being involved in those race scenarios and really learning the racecraft is something that comes with with racing a lot. And I think yeah, you learn from the people around you as well. It's just a all around a learning experience, getting you know, getting those reps in and doing lots of races.

Jason: 51:18

I agree. We preached about this on the show many times about league racing because league racing, um you're always racing with these high 9Ks, 8K's, 7K's. So you get to follow them and see what they're doing, and and it kind of advances that a little. But I have been privileged enough to be in a top split, and I'm the lowest in the field. So if I lose the race, it's not that big of a deal because the service won't punish me as hard as it will for the other guys that have the higher I rating. Um not yet. When I get there, I'll get I'll be punished too. Patience, Joe Jedi. Yeah.

Cam: 51:59

All right, who's got the next one? Cam, I I got the one. Cam, so I'm gonna switch gears a little bit um into you know real life race racing. Um talk, tell us how you got into real real racing, but then also tell us has I sim racing or i racing helped you out, or has it given you bad habits? Uh does it keep you sharp? You know, something like that. So this is something that I love to talk about um for like you know, sim racing to real racing. I think um, you know, it depends what you want to get out of it. Um, but I'll talk about that in a second. Uh, you know, how I got started in real racing, like I mentioned, was this passion that I had, you know, growing up at the track. Um and the driver who or excuse me, the team owner who my grandfather raced for at the time, he had a go-kart track uh on his property where he lived. And one of the 4th of July weekends, uh before I was actually racing at the time, uh, he had just kind of like paved this go-kart track on his property and bought some go-karts. And you know, I I drove them and I felt like a natural, right? And you know, I think my my parents had noticed just that, you know, I was looking good out there, and you know, we're thinking, hey, he's probably getting to go-kart age. You know, at this time I was 14, right? Wasn't quite in go-karts yet, but you know, it was like, hey, you know, he picked that up pretty well, kind of getting to that age where, you know, if he wants to start racing, it makes sense to do it. And so, yeah, they they got me a go-kart, and uh then I started racing in 2018, uh, when I was 15. And uh from there, you know, the success started started coming in. I won the Wisconsin State Championship in 2021. Hell yeah, bro, congrats. And uh thank you. And then that year uh it was time to it was time to move up into the car into the car racing. And you know, my father had raced uh different forms of Mazdas, whether it's an RX8 or like a protege back in the day. Um, and he had kind of shown me the great you know support that Mazda provides, not only with like the scholarship stuff and kind of the scouting the younger talent, but just what they do to give back to like grassroots drivers that are kind of at that amateur level. You know, the the support is really unmatched, they're so involved with with the drivers and making sure that basically everyone is like a satisfied customer racing a Mazda on track. There's a saying that more people race a Mazda on any given weekend than any other manufacturer. And it really comes down to like it really comes down to just the way that they the way that they treat you know their drivers and the support that they have. And so when it was kind of time to to move up into cars, you know, that made the most sense because you know, there's obviously this scholarship path, but it's also just a very supportive program and they're very involved. And so being a part of Mazda Motorsports and making the jump into Spec Miata made the most sense. It's where a lot of the you know greats of today uh have started uh was in Spec Miata. Uh it's a very popular class. It's in the NA and the N B version of the Miadas, so you know, pushing like 30 years old at this point the cars are, but it's uh as a result, you know, pretty affordable and it's very spec, so the cars are built almost identical. And so it really comes down to driver skill. And you end up having you know relatively affordable cars, lots of drivers uh that are aspiring to go somewhere or want to be the best that they can be, and so you get competitive fields, you know, like I mentioned, 60 cars, 70 cars. And so yeah, hop in spec Miata and uh moved on from karting then. And um, like I said, set the track record at Road America in Spec Miata and then moved into Spec MX5, which is the the uh NC version of the Miata. Um if you were to go on iRacing and you were to scroll down the car list and go to the legacy cars, it's the older version of the MX5. That's what I race right now. Uh it's like the 2015 model.

Jason: 55:40

I'm gonna check that one out. Yeah.

Cam: 55:42

So yeah, so that's a good off the car. Yeah, of course. So that's the exact car that I race now with Spec MX5. Um so you know, for me, it was basically just about you know proving that I can succeed. Uh it started in carding, right? Proving that I can succeed, you know, started, you know, state championship, won some track championships as well. And then it's like, hey, you know, it's time to start, you know, seeking support to kind of move up the ranks. And so, you know, my parents were involved, but also, you know, I partnered with uh previous guest on your show, Ready Set Sim, right? Um and other partners along the way. Shout out to Ian Stroman, RSS and partnered with people along the way that have you know really gotten behind my my mission and also you know have resonated with with me and you know my journey, like we've been talking about. And you know, personally, I like to kind of think of myself as an advocate for like the sim to reality pathway, you know, as we talked about. I started on on the sim, it taught me so much, all the skills I learned translate into real life racing, and I was able to become successful relatively quick, pick things up right away due to sim racing. And I think nowadays it's becoming even more prevalent. There's competitions that let you race in real life at this point, right? Like it's it's becoming so so you know widely acknowledged now that sim racing can be a viable path to you know kind of whether it's whether it's directly into real racing or even just a way to hone your skills before you get the chance to hop in a real race car. So, you know, as someone who advocates for that, I think you know a lot of people have resonated with my mission, and I've been able to, you know, garner support along the way to help myself you know progress up through the ranks. Um and you know, for next year I have my sights set on uh the IMSA ranks and to make my you know pro racing debut for next year. Oh yeah, that's that's in the works. And so that's kind of been my journey, and that's kind of how it came to be, you know, where it is now. But if we talk about you know i racing and how it helps me in real life, um I think it it goes both ways. It has helped me a lot, as we talked about before, it helps me a lot with learning racecraft. Certain scenarios, like I'll I'll have a battle in real life that is completely identical to something that happened on the sim, and it plays out the same way. Like because of the fact that the people you're racing um are real people and the racing is authentic, and you know, drivers aren't lagging all over the place like uh on the not disappearing or flying now that you fly in the sim. Yeah, it's sometimes the racing is virtual as far as like the cars and the tracks, but the actual product of what you're doing is so real. And so, you know, for me it has taught me a lot about racecraft and you know, handling the pressure of high-intensity real life scenarios because you know, to a degree, some races for me on iRacing are kind of pressure heavy, like gotta get the pole or gotta perform or gotta try to hang on to the lead. Ray, for sure. So, like you know, uh gotta be consistent when people are breathing down your neck, like all that stuff, right? Like, I've learned so much from again repeated races, but also just being put in those scenarios that translate to real life. Um, I will say this vehicle dynamics, and I mean this could be limited by the fact that I've just been on Logitech and like a desk setup, so it's maybe not so one-to-one, right? Um, but for me, you know, I think it it depends what you want to get out of it because I know real life racers that use the sim as like a training tool to like I learn a track, obviously. Like I do that too, you know, learn a track I haven't been to, but also they use it as a way to maybe make it more of a training tool versus like uh a simulator for like what it is. Because for me, I think at a certain point when I realized you know I was trying to become respectable in in sim racing, there's just certain things with the nature of like a simulator that can't be perfect versus real life. There's just certain things that you have to do in eye racing to really you know get that last little bit of speed. And sometimes it's defying physics or like doing some sort of crazy line that wouldn't work in real life because the curbs are like scanned differently, or certain things aren't simulated like they would happen in real life, just you know, things like that. And I think sometimes I can upset people that are you know real life racers switching to sim racing and they're like, oh, that that wouldn't happen in real life. That's frustrating. I think at a certain point for me, I had to disconnect myself from like, hey, you know, this is the sim and this is real life, and some of the stuff I learned on the sim as far as you know, racecraft and you know thinking and positioning and things like that, that translates to real life. But

Jason: 1:00:00

And the track too, the right? The track should should translate.

Cam: 1:00:03

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, totally, totally. But sometimes the with the vehicle dynamics and and you know some of the things you have to do to be you know fast in the sim, um, I think you kind of have to disconnect it from like its real life counterpart sometimes. Or even uh in like the open setup stuff when you're tuning the setup, you know, some of the stuff you do on the sim to make a fast setup wouldn't work in real life. So there's a few things, uh, but also it depends what you want to get out of it, right? Like for me, uh I take them as two different things. I want to be good in the sim, and so I realize that, hey, you know, I'm just gonna I'm just I'm gonna be cognizant of the fact that this stuff might not necessarily work in real life, um, but it's what works in the sim, and that's that's what it is. But if you want to use it as a training tool, maybe you race with a realistic setup that mimics your exact real life setup, or something where you're not necessarily trying to be the best eye racing driver you can be, you want it to be a trainer for real life. So I think it goes both ways. But uh 100% to recap, yeah, for sure. Learning tracks that I've never been to, obviously laser scan down to the millimeter, like those are always perfect, hopping into them for real life, and then all the racecraft scenarios and and racing lines, um, and the things that don't so much depend on like the car physics, but more so like just racing principles. And those things, iRacing is great for hitting home. Um, but you know, who's to say, you know, I won't become more immersed or feel more of that one-to-one connection when I hop on this new VRS simulator. And so, you know, only time will tell in that regard. Okay. All right. Well, I can't that's an awesome response. It just good great feedback for everybody, you know, real racers and sim racers. But then I'm super curious to see what you think about your uh once you get some seat time in the new rig.

Jason: 1:01:45

I I I mean, I honestly think that I don't know. I have a lot of respect that you actually mentioned what you just mentioned about it there being certain things that you can get away with on the sim and being realistic about it. And you know, you can't do that on a track, and there's a lot of things, or vice versa, right? Because the tire model in iRacing is not perfect either, you know. It's currently the best we have, in my opinion. Um, but it's not one-to-one, it's not perfect. Um I think either way you're gaining, bro, because if you've never been to a track, you can always run iRacing and see see where, get an idea where the breaking points are or how the track bends, and then when you go to it, it's not a surprise. You know what I mean? For sure.

Cam: 1:02:34

For sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, at the end of the day, like you said, it's not perfect, like it's super accurate and it's great for for what it is. And uh it's you know, the the main sim that I've raced on ever, right? Like I've dabbled in others, but there's a reason that I stick to iRacing, and it's because just the end product that we experience is, in my opinion, second to none. And so it's it's it's amazing, but it it is not perfect. And so, yeah, it's just certain things, like you said, don't always correlate, but that's just the nature of it. Just you know, at the end of the day, it's an online simulator that doesn't necessarily always replicate real life, but they they try their best and they they do a very good job, but certain things just don't quite add up, and you just kind of take that into account when you're considering what you want to get out of it.

Jason: 1:03:15

Okay, and I do have like kind of like a bonus question here. Um, is i racing like the only sim that you've tried, you know, because we we've only mentioned i racing here, and you know, I I understand you started racing at 11 and then you moved over to karting and then you got into the pro driving. But have you ever had like I don't know, like have you ever tried the other sims like ACC, AMS, uh too?

Cam: 1:03:43

Or yeah, so I did uh normal Asetto Corsa, try that out uh a little bit.

Jason: 1:03:48

Oh yeah, um did some race room as well.

Cam: 1:03:51

I think for me, uh on top of the fact that iRacing just has such uh a popular user base and you can always get in a race with somebody, like that was the thing with race room, you know, like it it follows a similar like rating system, and you kind of have something that you're working towards, but at the same time, you know, you're lucky to be in a race with three people on the whole service if you're lucky. So uh, you know, for me that wasn't the most enticing, and I said, of course, I man, just uh I've had some bad experiences just doing those races, like um everyone piles into turn one Monza and F1 car and something like that. Like, I don't know, just something about it. Just I I tried out other things, and you know, they they are what they are, but it just for me I mesh better with with iRacing, and um I I am a competitive person and I always like having something to kind of strive towards. And I think the fact that the rating system, uh uh i rating specifically, I think is something that brings a lot of people in, and myself included. It it's like you're you're always working towards something, and not always, like people don't have to be racing for i rating by any means, but it at least attaches something to what you're doing, you know what I mean?

Jason: 1:04:55

Right. And and to me, i rating is kind of like your career because a lot of people view it as oh, it's just a number and you're just trying to show off, but it's not, it's it's it's a symbolic number that demonstrates what I've been through and what I'm striving for, you know, and that's something that no other sim really has. I mean, they don't really have it like that. They'll they'll give you some sort of number or like a gold or you know what I mean, some sort of tier, uh tier one, tier two, but i rating is very, very, very punishing when you when you don't do well or when you mess something up.

Cam: 1:05:38

Unapologetically harsh.

Jason: 1:05:39

Dude, you can per kit per nim. Just last month I was a 499 safety rating, and that went all the way down to like a 2.0, and it wasn't technically my fault. But then, like you said before, you know, if if I would have thought about things a little differently, maybe I wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with, or invite the situation to happen. So I think that you know, I we're not we're not an iRacing podcast, I've always said it. Um we just it just happens to be the best option in my in our in my opinion right now for someone that wants to be competitive, wants to have fun, and wants to learn skills that translate in real life and to other sims as well, not just real life. So I think we got one more for you, Cam. I I'm um don't want to let you go. This is uh this is awesome.

Cam: 1:06:34

You know, I you know the feedback has been precedented, right? Of just how to look at your rate, your your officials. So, Cam, you know, to close it up here, we ask a lot of our guests here this because we're very, you know, Sim Racing's near dear to our heart, but where do you see for for somebody that's been in it far longer than I have, where do you see Sim Racing going in the next two to three years? Well, before I answer where Sim Racing is going, let me just plug in my laptop because that's where I'm going for the moment. All right, so we got that in.

Jason: 1:07:04

And now wait a minute, is this the same laptop from a uh 28? What was it when you was 11? Is this the 2018? 21 or so?

Cam: 1:07:11

It is not the same one.

Jason: 1:07:12

No, we were on the like in a trophy cage or something like that. Honestly, it should be at iRacing Headquarters.

Cam: 1:07:19

Yeah, uh or or the Logitech wheel that I've been that I've been running on for a couple of years ago. That should be at iRacing Headquarters, that'd be awesome.

Jason: 1:07:29

Yeah, yeah.

Cam: 1:07:30

Um, so where do I see sim racing? So I I think it's just gonna continue to grow in popularity. Maybe some some more titles enter into the into the sim industry, right, and kind of get involved, and drivers want to give it a try. Um, but I I see it just continuing to grow in popularity and people continuing to give it the respect it deserves as a way to to grow your your skill set, whether you want to become a real life driver or not. You know, it's a great way to just become a better driver and you know learn so many great things and meet amazing people. Like a lot of the people that I've met uh that have you know maybe gone on to be you know real life competitors one day or the other, like maybe I met them first on the sim, or just some of my best friends that I that I talk to the most frequently are uh are through the sim, and that you know, I'm sure we can all relate to that, right? Like it's a great place to learn and continue to build a community and and find you know like-minded people. And so I think you know, through you know, we've got the the Sim Gaming Expo in Chicago and you know, just more expos taking place. I know, I know the um just uh the Sim Racing Expo is coming to Charlotte next year as well. Like the expansion of touch points for people to become interested in a range of demographics is gonna just continue to help sim racing grow and just get more people involved. And just if you're someone looking to get into real racing or you maybe can't, but you want to because you have the passion, but maybe not the funding or the means to do it. Maybe you're in a place where there's no racetracks local to you, like there's gonna be avenues aplenty coming very, very soon. And so I think it's just gonna be something where it continues to grow and it continues to kind of manifest itself into its real life counterpart in a way, and whether that's what you want to get out of it or not, I mean there's still gonna be so many great opportunities as this series continues to grow, maybe more competitions or or you know, more people that just share the passion. And so, yeah, I just think yeah, just a growth in popularity totally, and just so many more great things to come. Uh more products, like you mentioned, you know, we've gotten a lot of gears since the COVID spike, and it's just gonna keep growing like that. And people are gonna get closer and closer to realism as well. I think that's something that we can't shy away from. You know, there's been so many different products beliefs.

Jason: 1:09:44

When you first put your hands on a direct drive, maybe some active pedals, maybe some motion. I don't know. Yeah, you know, I I I will I will follow up with with um with your closing thoughts here on the you know where the hobby is headed. And I always like to say that it's kind of unfortunate that it took this long for sim racing to develop itself, because think about the many talents that you know that could couldn't have that didn't have the means to go karting or racing and anything like that. And just just think about how many legends we let go because racing is so locked down, you know, closed down. I mean, you know, this is the Shekane podcast and Lance Stroll. Um I he he shouldn't be racing, man. I'll tell you, Jeff. Lance Stroll, come on, man.

Cam: 1:10:33

How many Lewis Hamilton slipped through their cracks? Or they could have been racing if they had you know totally. Yeah, that's uh I I've heard that saying quite a bit. Like they're the next Lewis Hamilton will not ever be able to actually race, or or someone better than Max Rush Steven will never have the chance to actually race because they haven't had the means. And so I think sim racing gives people the means, whether you know they end up with the water.

Jason: 1:10:57

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what I was alluding to with Lance, because Lance is a multi, what is he, a millionaire, right?

Cam: 1:11:03

With his dad and everything, his dad's a cajillionaire, yeah.

Jason: 1:11:05

Yeah, so then what is it to the underdog that's probably faster than all of them, but can't afford it? You know, and now we're finally at a spot, finally in a time frame where people are starting to take it serious, and they're not looking at it as a game, they're looking at it as a sim. Yeah. So and and you guys totally missed my joke on Lance Stroll. It was a bash to him, but it's okay.

Cam: 1:11:29

Oh, I got it. It's gotta be embarrassing for that guy to even like walk through the F2 pits, but like all those dudes would mop him. I don't know if that's accurate, but I think No, we don't know.

Jason: 1:11:39

Yeah, we're just kidding. So yeah, anyway. Um, Cam, uh wow, what a hell of a story, dude. Um, I got a lot of respect for your persona too. I think your head's in the right place. I think um I think you're gonna do great things with with with uh with the Emza thing and the pro thing, and I think that you're you're on your way, dude. Honestly, you you've had a steady incline in your career, uh as you as you told the story has been nothing but a steady incline. You know, I mean it's amazing. I love hearing stories. This is the best. These are the these are my favorite shows of the podcast. And this is kind of why the podcast is uh the podcast, you know, exists. You know, it's the many people we've met on the show, the many friends we've made on the show. And when we went to the Sim Gaming Expo, we all got to get together and it was amazing. It was like a family over there. Um I'm not trying to go pro just yet.

Cam: 1:12:37

You know, can I add a little bit? But go ahead, Jerry. Yeah, go ahead. I think we used a term on the last show um talking about how we went to the Sim Gaming Expo, and then at night we went to the you know the Sim Racing Bar. We thought out the term sickos, you know, just that those that take it enough. You know, in in the the nicest way possible. Cam, a dude that grinds it out the sim, and then on the weekend goes out and races the same car on the racetrack, dude. In the nicest way possible, you're a sicko. You're a sicko, bro. You're one of us. I'll take that as a count. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you should. Yes, I should.

Jason: 1:13:12

You're one of us. You're one of us. Yeah, and you know, before we're one of you. No, we're not, bro. We're not near nowhere near 10K, bro. I don't know. This guy's an alien status. Um, first alien on the show. That's how it is. Yeah. But uh I we we were talking earlier before we started the the interview, uh, before the podcast, and I was like, man, you should have gone to Chicago. I know you couldn't make it, but it, you know, it's it's George has big plans for next year, so maybe maybe we can do something next year. But you know, we Potato Nation, shout out again to LD, um, Lawrence DeSouza and his squad of Potato Nation. They showed up to the to the sim racing bar, and that's what we were racing was MX5s on the Nerba Green. And we were streaming it all over the place. Good thing you weren't there because you probably would have uh I know would have mocked them. He would be like, Oh, you guys race MX5s, huh? Okay. You'd be out there like, yeah, oh, okay. I think I know I think I know that car. Yeah, that's kind of fun.

Cam: 1:14:15

Maybe maybe next year, guys. You know, we'll we'll see you next time. We wish you the best. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate all the kind words and the you know, the chance to share my platform and share, you know, what what my journey has been and what I stand for. And you know, I I love to to be a part of this. So yeah, thank you guys so much. You're a good dude, man. We wish you the absolute best. Hell yeah, man.

Jason: 1:14:34

So that's gonna conclude our interview. I don't think we have any uh follow-ons after this. Um so Jeff, any final, any final words before we let them go?

Cam: 1:14:46

Uh, you know, I I think Cam would ex you know lives this, but drive fast and break late, everybody.

Jason: 1:14:52

There you go. All right, Cam. Um, yeah, man, uh huge fan. Um, you know, fellow RSS uh um ambassador, promoter, creator, you know, all the above. Uh, I think that uh yeah, man, I I I want to see you succeed. I want you to continue to succeed, and um everybody, I'll leave links to all Cam's social media. Go ahead and support them, go ahead and check them out. Um, and yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure to have uh another real life driver and give your opinion. Your opinion means a lot to the Shikane podcast because the Shikane podcast is for the Sim Racer, the community. Doesn't matter if you're high-end, doesn't matter if you're low budget, doesn't matter what. And we have proof here of someone using a G29 and probably smoke me on track with a CIBQ. So, um, and with that, um, thank you so much, everybody, and uh Cam again, uh highly regarded tier, how high regards here. So thank you so much for giving us the time. The honor is all ours, and to all you viewers and listeners out there, have a great start of your week. Thank you.