The Chicane Podcast
Welcome to the Chicane Podcast, keeping you up to date on everything sim racing. As we venture into this dynamic realm of esports and virtual racing, we'll be exploring a variety of topics, from the cutting-edge gear that's transforming the way we race to the newest games, hardware and software that are pushing the boundaries of what's possible in this virtual sport. We'll also be giving you an inside look into the lives of some of the top virtual racers in the world, through in-depth interviews that will give you a unique perspective on what it's like to compete at the highest level in this rapidly evolving eSport. So, buckle up and get ready for an unforgettable ride as we take you right into the cockpit of this exciting digital racing world.
The Chicane Podcast
The Mastermind behind The SimRacing Den
Join us on the Chicane Podcast as we welcome Michael Pagliaro, the mastermind behind SimRacing Den. Michael's journey from a dedicated listener to a high-profile guest is nothing short of inspiring, and he shares valuable insights on the importance of community in the sim racing world. We also share exciting updates, including Jason's new weekly stream for the Porsche Cup Series and our podcast celebrating a milestone of 1,000 followers.
Have you ever wondered how sim racing setups have evolved from basic gaming consoles to sophisticated rigs? We'll walk you through the transformation, from early favorites like Forza Motorsport 7 to advanced setups featuring the Fanatec DD1 and ASR Pro chassis. Michael offers his firsthand experience upgrading from single to triple monitor setups and experimenting with various wheels and accessories, emphasizing how these changes enhance immersion and realism.
Get ready to explore the latest in sim racing hardware advancements, including the nuances of haptics and force feedback systems. Compare the Simicube 2 Pro and Ultimate wheelbases and discover the game-changing impact of a customized haptics system. We also delve into the growing mid-range hardware market and the potential of VR and AR technologies in sim racing. Michael shares his journey in content creation, from simple iPhone videos to receiving review units from top brands, highlighting the importance of honesty and integrity in reviews. Don't miss this episode packed with insights and inspiration for every sim racing enthusiast!
Check out The SimRacing Den and his Facebook Group links below:
https://www.thesimracingden.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@simracingden
https://www.instagram.com/simracingden/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/476277217678724
Please e-mail the show for any questions, comments or stories/experiences at thechicanepodcast@gmail.com
Watch the show in video podcast form on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/@TGSsimracing
Follow all my social platforms below:
https://www.twitch.tv/trackghost
https://www.instagram.com/TGSsimracing/
https://www.youtube.com/@TGSsimracing
https://twitter.com/TGSsimracing
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566360513781
Intro/Outro Rights below:
Song: Low Mileage - Hold You [NCS Release]
Music provided by NoCopyrightSounds
Free Download/Stream: http://ncs.io/holdyou
Watch: http://ncs.lnk.to/holdyouAT/youtube
The Hello and welcome to the Chicane Podcast, where we discuss all things in the sim racing world. I'm your host, jason Rivera, and I'm joined here by Mr Eric Kelly, jeff Smart and a very special guest today, michael Pagliato, the creator of the SimRacing Den. How's everybody doing today?
Jeff:Hey, welcome.
Michael:Michael, Thank you for having me guys Doing really good. Been looking forward to this.
Jason:Michael, welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. Thanks for your previous message onto the show. It was awesome, and I had no idea that Michael was an active listener of the Chicane podcast on his morning commutes, so that was kind of cool to hear dude, it's always cool.
Jeff:It's like the first time we had uh constantinos on, and now that, michael, when I jump into the uh the studio and you see you know the face that you've watched on youtube for so long you're like holy cow, like they're in our podcast. So it's always special to have a guest, especially, you know, high profile one like michael, here, so uh, humbled to have you buddy yeah, no, happy to be here.
Michael:I'm. I'm glad I reached out, you know it's it's same for me too, like I've been listening to you guys in the car for the last you know month or so, because I I started a new job so my commute's a little bit longer. So I said I gotta jump on a podcast. And I said, okay, let me see what other sim racing podcasts are out there. And then I came across you guys and so, yeah, and now here I am, sitting here on the podcast, which is pretty wild. So, yeah, I know the pleasure is all mine, guys, and I'm glad I reached out. I think it's always important when you you see something that you like and you enjoy, you know to drop. I just wanted to drop you guys a note and say I thought it was cool what you're doing and yeah, and then, look, it leads to this right, we get to know each other. That's that's the thing I've loved the most about the sim racing community is it's been really easy to connect with people and that part's a lot of fun yeah, it's the.
Jason:I think it's the best part of it is the sharing and talking about different experiences. Everybody's experience is different, so, um, I've been a huge. I think we all have um follower on your channels and your facebook group as well. Your, your sim racing setups. You know, especially eric, eric is eric was the one that told me about the group from from the geth yeah, the group. I remember when you guys hit 100k exploded, yeah oh, and they hit 100,000 subscribers.
Michael:Well, okay, right now I think we're 120,000. We're over 120,000 members, which makes it, I think, the biggest sim racing group on Facebook. That's not like a marketplace group, like more of a general group, which is just mind-blowing to me. I don't know what happened, but we can get into that it's it's peaking, yeah, so it's really cool it's. It's a cool community.
Jason:Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right well, guys, today I'm just gonna go over a few updates, uh that that I have for you. So I will be starting a weekly stream for the porsche cup series on the global I racing league yeah and I hate to I mean, I don't hate to say this, but you know it's something I have to put out here is I racing has become my main sim now.
Jason:Um say it's really difficult say it ain't, so it's been really hard to, to, to scratch the damn itch on racing, and every time I jump in the rig and go on lfm, I'm seeing races being canceled and I just want to race with other humans and I racing has always just he's got his hand, he's got his arms up, like this, like hey, hey, come on, I'm here.
Jeff:You know, it's so funny that you say that because, you know, for the longest time you were trying to get me into iRacing. And then now that I'm like full into it, you're like hey, buddy, there's this game called ACC out there. Do you remember that? Do you remember that poor little game we've been playing Now? You're like nah, I don't need that game no more. We're all in on iRacing.
Jason:Right. So I mean to be fair, I've always said that iRacing it's not the prettiest looking game, but when it comes to the driving there's no sim that even comes close to it. I mean, I'm applying the same techniques and a little different right, because the acc wants you to slam on the brakes, uh, on on the initial braking phase. But you know I racing is, I'm excited, so I spent a lot of money, that's up. Well, I I'm officially in the 40 club, if you guys know what that means. Oh yeah, I'm not, I'm not even put that out there, but I'm officially, officially, in the 40 club, if you guys know what that means. Oh yeah, I'm not even going to put that out there, but I'm officially part of the 40 club.
Jason:But, the Chicane podcast hit 1,000 followers just before this interview.
Michael:That's awesome, Congrats guys, that's awesome man.
Jason:Yeah, I know I'm excited, I'm like shaking, and this is only the audio version. The the youtube size has it's seeing us something about 1500 views already. So, uh, thank you, this is you. Thank you so much, uh, for checking us out every week. Uh, we do these every monday and the plan is to have something for you to start your week off, but, uh, and I think jeff, jeff has something to put out as well before we get into it to my uh, my race, my uh driving week.
Jeff:Um, so I've been complaining complaining is probably the right word about uh getting rear-ended and some you know carnage along the races, so I don't know why. I just jumped in a uh c license formula class, was it like the f3 car? And let me tell you, boys, those dudes can drive, uh, that there's some serious talent rolling around in there. I think, jason, I think I sent you a picture of a dude, a, you know, a license that like I rating of 7 000 yeah, 7 000 I rate.
Jason:Wow, that is, it's ridiculous yeah, that's an alien. That's an alien numbers right there, I think.
Jeff:I don't know I don't think I've seen one like maybe half that, um, but anyways, yeah, so, dude, a lot super clean racing and competitive. Boy they it's fast. And uh, most of the races, uh, week before last or week before or week 12, were in virginia, the full course, and that track is awesome. If, if you know, the listeners haven't jumped into, uh, the virginia, full virginia, I forget the actual the street course, but uh, the full course with f3 car is full on that. That's a heck of a track. Elevation changes, you know second gear, low turning, you know tight turns, full high speed turns, great track for wheel-to-wheel racing. Now, with all that said, week 12, how awesome it was. I'm going to go out there and say week 13 in iRacing. Now, this is my first week 13.
Jason:Week 13 sucks, dude, week 13 is trash, bro it's terrible, there's nothing after all the praise I gave the game about it being available. That one week is just the one week, though, and I'm waiting for this mclaren 720 to drop at the time of this recording.
Michael:It's not here yet yeah, I was a little disappointed because I went and downloaded the update and I wanted to jump into mclaren and try it out. But yeah, I guess they're waiting for there's probably some licensing or things and contractual things that were behind with mclaren and that's why I think it missed the update, which is kind of papaya rolls man.
Jason:Papaya roll, papaya roll. I love thataya rules.
Michael:I thought that was so cool that they have the code word for it. Yeah, papaya rules, the papaya rules they should have maybe a little bit different. They might have been able to challenge ferrari, but that's a whole nother conversation.
Jason:Oh, yeah, okay well, well, that's about the extent of a few announcements that we wanted to make before we get into the special version of this show. And I am going to open up with the first question for Michael, which is not even it's not really a question. It's kind of like well, I guess it is a question, right? Just, we want to, we want to know, um, tell us about yourself, like tell us who you are and tell us you know, tell us a little, a little about about yourself.
Michael:Uh, michael, yeah for sure how much time we got. I don't know, I'll keep it quick. Um, yeah, I mean so I guess where a lot of things, where a lot of where I'm at today is because growing up I was a, I was a car kid and it was partly because my dad was really into cars. You know, grew up with Hot Wheels and and Lego like a lot of a lot of guys, and then naturally, you know my, my dad was really into computers and we always had like the newest thing when it came out, like he was always on top of that stuff. So I remember playing racing games at a really early age on, like those on a beige computer, like I'm really aging myself now. But so, yeah, you know I've always been into technology, gaming and cars and motorsports.
Michael:So it's not surprising that I naturally gravitated to sim racing. I'm actually surprised how long it took me to actually get here and build my first setup. You know a lot of it was just, you know, timing, budget, space and things kind of aligned in the last three years, um, to make that sort of setup happen. A lot of people think I've been doing this a long time, but I've really been, I would say seriously sim racing or not seriously, but really into it in the last three years and the channel is about two, three years old too it kind of all started at the same time.
Michael:But yeah, outside of outside of this, I do have a normal day job, you know, not a full-time YouTuber, so I'm constantly balancing that with. You know, a life. I'm married, no kids, so I do have a little bit more time than others, but busy job. I've been in sales and as an account manager for, you know, most of my life, over 20 years, selling different things. I'm all about relationships and meeting new people, so I think that's helped me in that career and has also been helping me in in this new endeavor in terms of building relationships with the community and the industry. So, yeah, that's kind of where we're at um, really enjoying what I'm doing right now though, but it's a lot of work but it's a lot of fun too.
Jason:Man, that's awesome. I mean, yeah it's.
Michael:It's crazy how much I, I, we relate to each other, man it's it's kind of crazy yeah yeah, I think a lot of us in this hobby, uh, especially us who are really kind of engulfed in it, there's always the. The first thing is the love of cars. Like I think anyone I've talked to that they had at least that somewhat there, uh, or whether, whether it be racing, um, and had some work. A lot of us are gamers too, right at some point, um, so it's yeah, it's interesting.
Jason:We all have a lot in common right, I mean, I mean I think that's all of us right Around the three-year mark, except for Jeff. Jeff is our newest.
Jeff:Yeah, I got my renewal license for iRacing this week actually, so there's almost one year anniversary of getting a rig.
Jason:Oh snap, and that was the first game you actually like, bought, right. I mean you don't buy iracing or you do, right?
Michael:it's like ten dollars membership since yeah essentially right yeah I bought it and then, like never used it, jump.
Jeff:Like I said, jason got me into acc, so I got him started there, but then he flocked.
Jason:I got him started there, but then he flocked.
Michael:Yeah, I didn't start with iRacing. Yeah, but it's crazy, I mean. I feel like the last couple of years has been a blur. Like I really went like zero to 100 with sim racing. Like I was in the studio the other day here just kind of cleaning up and I was looking around and I go, this really escalated. Like when did this happen? Like you know, it's just, it's wild. That happens to me all the time, like when I'm into something I go really deep, right. I think that's the thing.
Jason:That's all of us right there.
Jeff:No truer words.
Jason:Yeah, that's all of us. That's what's up, man. So yeah, all right.
Erick:So so, mike, I do want to kind of piggyback off. You tell us about yourself. You kind of got into your assimilation story. But as far as how you, how you got into it and how it began, what was, I guess, like that initial you know thing that kind of switched you on, because I know you say you mentioned you played video games. Was it always racing games? Or did it like eventually flip to like, okay, now I'm doing racing games, now I'm doing sim racing sure, yeah, uh, for me it was always racing games first.
Michael:The first memory I have of just gaming in general was, uh, playing the original test drive on like a very old computer and I think it was even black and white, like it wasn't even colored until it was test drive two.
Michael:Um, and like you're steering with the keyboard and braking with spacebar, like that kind of thing damn spacebar, yeah like not, this is like really old, um, and I don't even remember how old I was when I first started, but I remember my dad downloaded this game floppy drive, put in the computer.
Michael:He's like, oh, you gotta check. Like I was already into cars and playing with hot wheels, so he was like you gotta check out this game. And I think for me the thing about that game that is such a memory for me was it was the first game where, like you were like inside the car and you could like turn on the lights and you could turn on the windshield wipers, and I think I really that really gravitated to me Like I was the kid that used to build like a fake car setup in my room and then like sit in it Like I had the toy wheel and I would build like I would put my radio here like a console and I would pretend like I'm driving in my bedroom. So you know, and so as I got older I mean I was, I grew up in the gran turismo era, so I was playing all the gran turismo games.
Michael:Um, yeah, eric, eric, I know eric's a big grand trizmo guy but like I was flip-flopping a lot too, like I would flip-flop between, like xbox and playstation. It kind of just depended on what my friends were into. You know, at one point we were really into project gotham racing, so me and my buddies would oh yeah, do you remember that on xbox?
Jason:yeah, I forgot about that one, that was good, that was awesome.
Michael:So we used to race online like this was would have been an xbox 360, I think at the time, and we would race each other and and you know crap, talk each other on project gotham online all the time. And then, naturally, and then forza came out and for me, forza kind of brought me back to that original test drive of the like, driving like open road, and I always thought that was cool. Um, so then I was really into the forza games, uh, and then naturally gravitated towards forza motorsports 7, and so forza motorsports 7 was the game I was playing when I built my first sim racing setup. So, and it was all kind of a timing thing, so my wife and I had a condo like closer to the city. It was like a loft style condo. There was no space for a sim racing setup, nor was she going to let me get one in that, in that apartment. And so when we bought our first house, which we're at where we're now, I was getting a home office with that.
Michael:So I was really excited just to have my own home office and I started, you know, at the time I had a really big model car collection. That was my other obsession which I still collect a lot. So the office was mainly all of my model cars. And then I decided, as I was playing for it, so I said I think I'm going to try this sim racing thing finally, like I knew what sim racing was and I was watching you know all the big. I was watching Barry on sim racing garage I you know. I was watching will on boosted media and doing my research and I eventually settled I decided, okay, I'm, I'm going to just kind of dip my toe in a bit. I went in a little bit further than most people start off with, like I didn't start with like a logitech or g29, so I went with a fanatec setup, so I had a dd1.
Erick:I got a track racer, yeah, I know I went.
Michael:I know you're thinking like that's kind of not an entry setup, but I kind of knew, like knowing the type of person I am, I kind of knew I was gonna want something a little bit better. So I was kind of trying to future-proof myself. Which cry once, man, that that didn't work.
Michael:I've cried multiple times now, but the point of Fanatec was that I said I'm going to start with my Xbox. I already own an Xbox Series X. I didn't have a gaming computer. I was a Mac guy. I always had a Mac for doing productivity stuff, but I'd never built a gaming computer. I was always a console gamer.
Michael:Like the sim racing pc that I have here, even though this is like the second iteration of it, this was the first time I ever had a gaming computer, for I got a gaming computer specifically for sim racing, so originally I thought I'll just stick with the xbox and if I'm really into this then I'll look at a pc. I'll look at high racing. That didn't take very long. I uh, so I had a fanatec dd1 on a on a track racer tr8 cockpit which is like a tube frame cockpit. It was a nice cockpit, like I. Actually it was pretty sturdy for what it was and I just did a fanatec set of v3 pedals.
Michael:I got the vanatec shifter um, I think I had the handbrake at the time and then, like nothing else, I had the formula wheel and I had a GT wheel and you know which was a pretty big investment for a first time sim racing setup still. And yeah, I was just playing Forza Motorsport 7 and then I started realizing that there was going to be some advantages, obviously, to moving to a computer. So it didn't take long. I didn't want to build a computer, so I just went and bought like a pre-build, and then I eventually ended up that pre-build didn't look the same after I was done with it. I ended up rebuilding a whole computer because and then went down that rabbit hole.
Jason:So oh yeah you got it. This is crazy. It's like I'm listening to the story. Yeah. There's only like one variation here and there, but I pretty much followed Same journey. Eh yeah yeah, I ordered mine from Next NZXTcom, my pre-built.
Michael:Yeah, Then I just went to like Canada Computers here which is like a micro center kind of thing. Oh, okay, and you know, but then I, I then I really like I actually enjoyed building my, building the computer out. And then the second computer I built, I just like I don't know why I did this I built a water-cooled computer. Um, because I thought that would be fun and that was a bit of a nightmare and I had an incident with water everywhere and I'm not doing it. I'm not doing this again you had a small flood over there, I see, yeah so
Michael:the computer that I kind of went back to a more simple air-cooled computer. You know, the computer I have now is super powerful, but it's it. The computer has gone on its own journey along with the sim racing setups, which is so different now as a result of, you know, reviewing equipment and things like that. Naturally I have different things on my rig now, but yeah, that's where it started, you know, and it's like I said, it moved very quickly because I think, you know, as soon as I really got into it I knew this was going to be like my forever hobby and my forever thing. And I still feel like that. I don't think I'll ever not be doing this to some extent ever.
Jason:Wow yeah.
Jeff:That's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. Hey, mike, I kind of want to, you know, follow on question to that. So you talked about. You know you started with the Fanatec setup. Kind of explain to us and our listeners over how you went from that setup to where you are today and what you're currently having in your rig, if you don't mind.
Michael:Yeah. So I mean it was a bit of a gradual thing. I had started the channel at the same sort of shortly after I had sort of got the computer and started upgrading a lot of things in my setup, I started reviewing things that I was buying, but I still wasn't receiving a lot of hardware. So at there was a point it was I basically kind of drew a line in the sand and decided to rebuild and create an entire new setup, almost um, and that was when I moved from. I moved from fanatec to a Simicube to Pro. I upgraded my rig.
Michael:I kind of went to I had come across Advanced Sim Racing and because they're a Canadian distributor, you know, it was like free shipping and price wise it worked out. I didn't have to pay customs or duties. I actually reached out to them. They were like super helpful and I said, look, I want to, I really want to upgrade what I'm doing right now and I'm going to be starting this youtube channel and I want to kind of go deeper into this.
Michael:And so you know, I ended up getting the asr pro, which was it had just came out like I think I was. Actually they told me I was one of the first people to get an asr pro chassis. Uh, which was their sort of latest chassis. Like the, the aluminum that they use it's it comes directly from canada. It's like it's that. Still, I think it's the thickest profile for a chassis, but yeah, it was. It went from asr pro semi-cube to uh pro wheel wheelbase and then I did the huising and velt, uh sprints um that was I upgraded yeah, I upgraded from the v3 to the sprints for a little bit better experience.
Michael:Um, and then I went. The big move obviously was when I was running the xbox and the fanatec setup. I just had a tv, like I had one oled tv, it was like a 48 inch, which was really nice, but I moved to triples. When I built this new setup and when I moved to triples I was go. I was like, wow, okay end game.
Michael:That was that was like, and I think that's that's for me when I got really hooked, um, you know, I built out the triple setup. I had the computer running and so, yeah, and then through that, I mean, a lot of different accessories came and went um in terms of button boxes, and then, you know, with the simiq wheelbase I was now not locked into a fanatec wheel, so it was like, okay, what other wheels can I get as well?
Michael:right, um, yeah, because I remember one of the first wheels I bought was the grid mpx, I think, and it's still my favorite wheel. It's actually back there right now.
Michael:I took it off the grid, mp that's um, I, I love that wheel, um, but naturally I have a lot of other wheels in the den. I've been fortunate to be sent a lot of things, so naturally the collection has grown. But, um, yeah, as far as the setup, it's changed quite a bit now. Um, we can, if you want me to kind of go into what I'm currently running, I can. I can talk to you about that a little bit too.
Michael:Yeah, absolutely I think, yeah, I'd love to hear it I'm sure the listeners would too yeah, so where the setup is now is so I still have triple monitors, but I upgraded to the samsung g7s so it's still a running scene dude I have the g7 behind you and I are two alike man I know that's freaking crazy, bro they're, you know 1440p, which honestly I think 1440p is a nice compromise when it comes to frame rates well for that size 1440p so I have 32 inch.
Michael:They're curved right, yeah um, I do like having curved monitors, like a lot of people ask me. You know I'll get questions sometimes like curved or flat, it doesn't make a huge difference, but there is a little bit sort of a perspective thing. But it looks cool from the outside too, like I like the way it wraps around. But I don't think there's it's not going to be a huge night and day difference but yeah, it does help a bit with the sort of feeling of being surrounded yeah, it kind of wraps around you like yeah totally, I minor was at the 1500r, so they don't wrap as much as the uh, the samsung's do.
Michael:Yeah these are a thousand are the first triples I had were an msi monitor, which were a thousand are, so it wasn't as an aggressive curve, um. But yeah, I upgraded to these monitors at some point. And then, yeah, wheelbase got a bit of an upgrade. It's a Simicube 2 Ultimate because Simicube had sent me along a bunch of things to review. So you know, I kind of did a comparison between the Simicube 2 Pro and Ultimate. It's a lot of money. The Ultimate, I think I said in the review, review like it it's maybe not necessary.
Michael:Yeah, you're good with the pro. You're good with the pro like the ultimate. There's some very fine things that you notice, but I don't know if it's worth the jump in price. Um, but yeah, if anyone wants to check out the review I did on that, I touch a lot on maybe, if you're a uh what you call this, uh pro driver yeah, an athlete, you know, like an olympian trying to yeah, like I don't run it anywhere train on the wheel like I
Michael:don't run anywhere close to 32 newton meters. I don't think I go over like 220, you know. And if you're in a gt3 situation, which is usually what I race when I sit in the rig, you don't need 32 Newton-Peters even you know.
Jason:Yeah. It's gonna get you tired, fast too. Jeff, can you test?
Michael:Yeah, but the main game changer with the Ultimate is like is that slew rate, the torque? Yes, so that does make a difference in terms of responsiveness. I did notice that slightly from the 2 Pro. So, yeah, I you know, it was sent to me and and it's why not stick wheelbase?
Jason:because, why not?
Michael:it's gonna live on the rig, right um, so and so my two pro like I had bought that with my own money. I don't sell anything that's sent to me for free so I ended up just selling the two pro um to uh to a good friend of mine, actually one of the moderators on our facebook group. So, uh, yeah. So, semi-cube to ultimate wheelbase um, as well, I have the active pedal uh break for as my break, which was a review sent from semi-cube uh and the, and I have the their passive throttle. So I don't have the semi-cube active pedal throttle which I honestly for the throttle.
Michael:Um, I don't know if the active pedal is 100 worth it for the throttle, but it there are some cool effects. But, yeah, I just run a two pedal setup. I actually don't do a lot of manual driving. Uh, in my main rig, like usually on the test rig, I'll have a shifter so I can test out different pedals, that test out the clutch pedal. But in my main rig when I jump in and race, I'm racing gt3, gt4, you know you're not switching gears gt4 nice and the paddles um, so, yeah, still the asr pro cockpit like this.
Michael:This cockpit is a tank like I don't I there, there would be no reason for me to change my chassis, uh, unless I had to change my setup drastically. It can support a motion system maybe one day. Oh so you're not, you're not running motion, then no, I have no motion. Um, I have. So, for haptics underneath, I have kind of I kind of modified the slip angle trans haptic kit, which is, uh, another thing that I reviewed on the channel. So there's, you know, I have four corners front, left and rear.
Michael:Um, I don't run it with the springs and the isolators just because it doesn't work with this chassis for me personally, but those transducers alone was a big upgrade from I had a buck kicker gamer pro for a long time, but having the four corners now is really cool. Like I can feel the difference between front and rear and corners when I go over rumble strips. Um, I cannot, like I always tell people with sim racing setups, once they've sort of got everything kind of locked in as far as the the, you know the standard hardware, I said get haptics, because it's like I cannot race without haptics. Guys like I cannot, like I get in someone else's or I go to an event and they don't have haptics. It just feels car feels dead.
Michael:Yeah, no the rig feels dead, it comes alive with haptics, and, and so yeah, the haptics running. And then recently I added the uh, you can't see the seatbelts right now. I took them off, but I have the um cubic system now, I'm really thinking about that man it yeah, so this review let's hear it.
Michael:I just I just did this. This was the last review I just uploaded and this has been the newest thing that's been on my main rig is this belt tensioner system. The video has been really popular. I think the product right now is really popular. You can tell by all the chatter in their Discord. There's a lot of people interested in this because you know, if you were on the fence for something like motion or you just needed that extra immersion, I think a lot of people are curious, as if this can kind of scratch that itch, so to speak.
Michael:Um, I was really, um, I guess, like hesitant about it at first. I was like is this going to be a gimmicky thing or is this going to be, um, a real game changer or is it really going to add to the immersion? So you know, in my conversations with cubic before they sent it for review, they said look, just give it a go and let us know what you think. And it's one of those things that and I mentioned a lot of this in the video is there is a lot of a lot terms in terms of the setup and getting your rig set up to support it. But once I got it dialed in, it was like, okay, this is pretty cool. Like the first time you fly into a corner and slam on the brakes and the belts press you against the seat. It's a really, it's a really insane experience and they actually vibrate too.
Michael:Right they like you have, yeah, they have like a haptic thing built into them yeah, they use a combination of haptics as well as kind of moving and manipulating the belts basically. So for, like, when you gear shift, they kind of pull them slightly so it feels like when you're shifting you're getting that feeling that you're kind of jolting as you would, kind of in a real race car. It's pretty convincing, honestly, and even like the engine vibration. You can set it so you can feel the engine vibration, vibration through the belts. So when you're sitting in the pits and you fire the car on, like your body's shaking, like it's different than having just the haptics underneath the seat and your rig.
Michael:It to feel it here is is interesting. So, man, yeah, it's cool, like I don't know. Like in the review I I said I think it is worth the money if, if you know you've it's one of those after things, like once you've got everything else, it's probably a nice add-on. But I wouldn't say run out and get this on a basic setup, get some other things maybe upgraded first, which would be probably more impactful in the beginning. But when you've sort of like you know where some of us are at, where we've got a lot of things, really nice stuff on the rig, it's kind of like that extra thing of going okay, this is cool it's so.
Jeff:I was watching the video and you can see like the view that you had behind it. You can see the seatbelts just going yep just tweaking back and forth and then obviously the little led in the kit in the back or like the kit the car was, was a nice little touch and the brake light effect, yeah.
Michael:I had some fun with it. Yeah, that directional G-force is actually a really cool effect. That actually impressed me the most, more so than the braking of this. Like when you corner it's manipulating the opposite belt so you get this feeling of the direction you're traveling. So it's really strange, right, because in motion, even in with a motion system, it can tilt and pitch and roll, but you don't get, I would almost say, the effects on the belts is more useful from a performance standard standpoint, because what I was getting a better understanding of was my actual speed. Going into a court, like going into a braking zone, is when I, if I slam on the brakes too late and I'm now really putting a lot on the brakes I'm feeling that like, I'm like, oh, I'm breaking way too hard here which with the active pedal.
Michael:You can get some of that from ABS and things like that, but it's it's. You can't get that that feedback from anything else. And if you're, you know you're already a fat. It's not going to make you fast off the bat, but if you're already fast and you know how to use that feedback to your advantage, I think in the right hands some, you know, it's going to be really cool. But for us, for me, just like normal guy I'm not, I don't have fast lap times it's just super immersive and I I'm all about immersion. So yeah, um, so yeah, that's kind of the rig. I got a couple different button boxes. I used the Pro Switch panel, I used a SimCore SDC1, which I control different effects on. I've kind of simplified a lot of my things here.
Jason:SimCore yeah the Australian, I really like SimCore. Yeah, man, I've got a lot of SimCore accessories. I got the shaft extension, and when I mean shaft, I mean the you know the shaft on the motor?
Michael:yeah, I got my shaft extended too.
Jason:Yeah, I got boys got jokes and even even jeff got his shaft extended there recently, but I don't think he's running it yet, uh, no, no, maybe more when my new wheel gets here.
Michael:We'll see yeah, simcor is nice man, george from simcor, you know I talk with him regularly. Um, he's a really cool guy. He's always thinking like that guy's mind never stops the quality man.
Michael:He's always thinking of new ideas and it's all those little hacks and those little things that, like, you didn't even know you needed for your rig and you're like, oh yeah, I need one of those. You know he made a really good. I think he makes one of the best ddu mounts which I have, which is the level one adjustable mount. It's like you can add all these little pieces to your dd ddu mount to get it exactly where you need it and for the person with the rig that needs that, it's like a lifesaver. You know, like they're not. They're not cheap but, like you said, the quality, everything's metal, everything's cnc'd um you know right, it's a everything's metal, everything's CNC'd.
Jason:Right, it's a buy once and kind of yeah it's kind of like sim racing jewelry, I call it.
Michael:It's nice stuff and you put it on your rig.
Jason:That's a good one. I like that. Yeah, we might steal that on a patent.
Michael:Oh yeah, we got a patent. Put it on a t-shirt. You need to put your name on that sim racing jewelry. That's awesome. I loved it, yes, so yeah, I mean, that's the rig. Uh, I got a. I have a win sim kit, which is I don't use it. I don't think win sim kits are useful for simulating speed. I think, like something like the belts is more useful, but I honestly it's air conditioning, because it gets hot.
Jason:Thank you, I was about that. I was about that I was getting ready. Yeah, I just set it to like a set amount and it just keeps me cool.
Michael:I got two fans blowing on me right here and, uh, best upgrade I made to the rig because it can get hot, because you have people forget. You've got three monitors surrounding you and these things give off heat. And then you got my maximum brightness too.
Michael:They're all on max brightness like damn so yeah, I mean, that's the rig, and then there's like 20 wheels on this pegboard beside me which, um, you know, a lot of them I kind of use regularly, and a lot of them are review units, which is cool, and I keep them around because I think for me it's it's about being able to compare things.
Michael:So it's really easy for me now when a new wheel comes in to like pull another wheel off and go. You know how does this compare? If somebody asks me, I can kind of give some good feedback. So, but there are a few real, I would say the wheels that are my go-to have always been, uh, the, the grid mpx. Like I said, I use that wheel all the time. It's just a nice all-rounder, um, even though it's not round, but it's a nice.
Michael:It's a nice all-rounder wheel and, uh, I do, I like the hyper p1 gsi. I have one of those, which is a really cool wheel. But uh, yeah, man, it's fun. The setup is always changing. It's always surprising. Like I never would have thought I had a would have a belt tensioning system on here and now yeah, I said it in review I can't race without it. Now that I've tried it, if they wanted it back I'd be sad. That's my honest opinion. Now, do I think it's for everybody? I don't know. Like I said in the video, I pointed out a lot of things in the review. That's what I try to do in my reviews is try to look at all the little details that you might not be considering purchasing it, okay, but yeah, that's the rig. You know, ever-growing, ever-changing. But, like I mean, I'm super privileged and happy to have it the way it is right now. And the only other thing that I still want is I do want some sort of motion at some point. I know that.
Michael:I don't know when that will be, because that's still really expensive, way out of my budget right now. Um, send out a few emails, man, see if anyone bites. Yeah, if this somebody wants to send one for review, sure, but uh, yeah, it's even without motion. I think I'm really happy with the setup, like I, just I, I get in the rig and it's a lot of fun, never gets old.
Jeff:Yeah, those haptics really do add another level of immersion.
Michael:Yeah, you have haptics on your rig.
Jeff:I just have a, just the butt kicker.
Michael:Yeah, that's all you need. Honestly, the buck, just having something it just pedal kickers. I mean it just pedal kickers. I mean, oh, that's right too. Yep, I do have. Uh, yeah, those are cool.
Jason:I've tried the sim magic ones.
Michael:I had those. I had those on um. I think I had those on my hoisin belt ultimate plus pedals at one point.
Jason:Those are my those are my pedals.
Michael:I run the ultimate, yeah honestly, I would have if, if simi cube hadn't sent me the active pedal and throttle, I would have still had those on the rig right now, because those those up until now have been have been the pedals that I've been running the most. Um are the pedals that I was running on my main rig. Like the test rig goes through different pedals like every month they're pretty indestructible.
Jason:I say that there's, they're heavy, those pedals they're really well made.
Michael:I I like I mean, you've got tons of adjustability if you want to dial them in, but I always just like the way the braking felt with those. And yeah, they're a well-made set of pedals. But there's a lot of options these days. Now it's hard making decisions.
Jason:I know back then you had yeah, you had a very crazy margin. You had the beginner and then just straight up in the 1,000 range. There was no middle mid. You know Yep Mid-range.
Michael:The mid-range. There's a lot going on right now. I just got a set of the Moza Racing CRP2 pedals. So, those are actually mounted on the test rig right here right now and I've just sort of began running those through the paces. But yeah, this mid-range category is really growing, like you know. Simmagic, p1000s and these kind of pedals is really interesting. They're all trying to compete with each other, which is good, because we're getting better products as consumers with all this competition.
Erick:Yeah.
Jeff:All right. Well, that's quite the in-depth rig, yeah. So let's transition here a little bit. Tell us a little bit about the SimRacing Den and what it is.
Michael:Sure. So SimRacing Den at its core is a resource for sim racers. It's hardware reviews, guides, tutorials, my honest thoughts and impressions when reviewing gear from the perspective of a fellow sim racer, someone who has spent money on sim racing gear and someone who still spends money on sim racing gear. It's never done. The name the Sim Racing Den was because growing up, so when I was really young, my grandfather had a den and the word den I realized it doesn't translate to certain certain languages. Somebody in Germany said it was kind of a weird thing for them, but for most people in North America den is like a home office, or a den, by definition, is where you pursue your hobbies. I think if you look it up in the dictionary and so that made sense for me to call it the den, because growing up my grandfather had a den where he used to build model planes and play fight simulator simulator like the original one, and then my dad called where our computers were the den. So when I created my home office here it became the sim racing den. So yeah, the idea of the channel was I wanted to kind of welcome people into the den. I was going through this experience of building out SimRacing and I had no friends around me to talk about it with or get excited about it with, and I thought what I was doing was cool and wanted to share it with people. And so, yeah, it's just started with me deciding that I was watching some YouTube videos and I thought, hey, maybe I could do this, maybe I could try and do this just for fun and see where it goes. And so I just picked up my iPhone and I started did a tour of my home office at the time really kind of just shaky video, bad audio, whatever and then I started just reviewing things I had bought right, just like. Let me give you my review, my impressions of some of the gear that I have and, uh, yeah, the first where it, I think, where it really became a channel, uh, where I, where I really realized that this was going to maybe be something I would continue doing, was and this happens with a lot of youtube channels is you have what's called kind of like, where I really realized that this was going to maybe be something I would continue doing was and this happens with a lot of YouTube channels is you have what's called kind of like an outlier video or a video that goes viral and it was a guide that I did, called so you Want to Start Sim Racing? And the reason I made that video is partly because I wanted just to provide some sort of basic answer to a lot of people would ask me like, well, how do I start sim racing? So the idea of the video was just very basic, high level knowledge of what makes up a sim racing setup.
Michael:And, uh, I put together that video because I was running out of things to review that I had bought, so I was trying to do some different videos and that video is has almost a million views now and it really, it really skyrocketed the channel because I remember I woke up, there was like a lot of views after I posted it and I was like, oh, this is insane. And then I woke up the next morning and it had 10 000 views and it had brought in thousands of subscribers to my channel and they were watching now my other reviews and videos and I was like, wow, this is incredible. So, and that brought me over the hurdle of the monetization or, like you know, a lot of youtubers look at the monetization as like the benchmark. For me, it wasn't about the money. It was about, once you're in the partner program, you're sort of like an established channel. So that was really cool.
Michael:It was a cool experience and I think you know I was getting a lot of positive comments. That motivated me to keep going with it and naturally I just tried. My goal was always to just get better with every video, try to be better in terms of the information or the look or the filming or the audio. It was always just trying to improve with every video and I was having a lot of fun doing it because I had not really done anything like this before, so it was a whole new thing.
Jason:So yeah, that's's I guess kind of the story in a nutshell. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean it's interesting to hear I might have clicked on this video, who knows?
Michael:yeah, a lot of people did uh it's not my best. It's not my best work, but I think a lot of people found it useful. I might have clicked on it. It's not my best work, but I think a lot of people found it useful?
Jason:No, it doesn't have to be your best work.
Jeff:I mean it's, I think it's that sliding scale over If you have really good information. It doesn't have to be the highest quality. Content is key. Content is key. Content editing skills and what you're saying is incredibly important, is key content editing skills and you know what you're saying is incredibly important and people want to listen.
Erick:You know it doesn't have to be produced super well yeah and then, where it became a review and audio was big time.
Michael:Yeah, audio is very important and video, yeah, where it really. I transitioned to doing hardware reviews and actually receiving review units was interesting because, um, it was. Yeah, it was just one day I got an email in my to my inbox that I'd set up for the channel and it was a marketing um, marketing manager director from Thrustmaster, and he said you know, I just seen some videos on your channel. I like what you're doing. Would you be interested in reviewing some of our gear? And I was like, oh okay, I thought it was spam at first. I don't, I had to. I had to look up your guys name because I wasn't really a huge channel at that point. So it was. I guess it was a little bit flattering to be recognized by a hardware company. Um, so I said, yeah, like so how does this work? Like, because I've never received equipment. He goes I send you the equipment for free and you review it, give us your honest opinion on it and keep the hardware when you're done. And I was like, oh okay.
Jeff:That's how it works so.
Michael:I took it really seriously, though, as the opportunity. So when the stuff came in, it was the Thrustmaster TGT2, which was the previous like Gran Turismo flagship wheel. I know, eric, you know that wheel and it was the T128 and it was before it was released, so they were sending it to me as an unreleased product. So I had an embargo and sort of like with that product. I couldn't talk about it, show it and had to review it. It was, you know, their entry level, you know, replacing their entry level wheel and, uh, along with their tlcm pedals. So I was like, wow, this is insane, like they're sending three things from your review. But then the the task of doing the review now was like. I was like, oh, do I know what I'm doing?
Michael:the pressure I yeah, it wasn't pressure like for me, it was like I was gonna. For me, what was the most important thing to me, and always has been, is giving my honest view on hardware to the viewer. Right, it doesn't matter if something was sent to me for free, whether it's a really cool product or not. I really put that aside and I look at it at a you know, is this something I'd want to buy if I was spending money on this? Because if I, if I'm not doing that, then I should. There's no point in doing this. So that was always the goal from the beginning and so, yeah, I took it really seriously and the privilege of having that opportunity to review a new product that hadn't came out. People were going to be making decisions on reviews, so I really wanted to make sure I covered a lot of things, and that's where the first time where I kind of decided to elevate the way I was making videos was when I did those thrust master reviews was really think about like the actual look. So I really tried to do something different. I moved locations, I started filming in my kitchen because I wanted, like a different backdrop. I did all these. I kind of used that opportunity those products to experiment, and that, I think, really is what jumpstarted the channel as a hardware review channel, because after that it was sort of like, naturally, other companies started reaching out and I started having relationships and conversations with marketing teams from it's usually marketing teams from these companies that handle a lot of this outreach to creators.
Michael:So, yeah, it's been a wild journey, man. The last three years has been crazy. It's a lot, it's it is a lot of work, um, especially if you're trying to do a job during the day as well. It is my, it is all my free time. It is all my free time. It is all my free time now and I'm not complaining about that. It's a lot of fun, but it's it is. It can be a grind sometimes, for sure.
Jeff:It's a breath of fresh air that you said it's your honest opinion of the topic. You know, I think a lot of times it comes with a stigma when people say in their reviews oh, xyz company sent this to me, you know for their. You you know, but they didn't have a say in my opinion, or whatever. But then you know, you're not on a video review to say that right now you're just giving you know, hey, this is how I got into it, this is what I stand by for you to say. You know, I'm going to tell you how it is straight, no, chaser.
Michael:Um, it's kind of a breath of breath of fresh air, so we appreciate it it's not about the financial gain I mean there obviously is I do make some money from doing this as a result. That's just naturally how YouTube works and how affiliate programs work. But the way I look at it is that, yeah, what I'm saying and what I'm reviewing a lot of people will not believe that sometimes, but it wouldn't make sense for me to do it otherwise. It wouldn't make sense for me to do it otherwise, and any company that's going to like I would never do a sponsored video by like a hardware manufacturer Like I do have affiliations with distributors and things like that, which I don't think that has ethically any issues but like I would never do a sponsored video and they want to control what I'm saying. It would just never be a thing I would do.
Michael:And I would say most of the companies out there are are actually pretty good. They all understand the rules and a lot of them will come to you and say you know they're there. Sometimes there's formal agreements and all that agreement is is that I'm going to send this to you and you're going to make a review video. Just we need to know that that's going to happen. Outside of what you say is there's no, we have want no control or no say in it, so a lot of companies are really cool about this. Like I've never I don't think I've really encountered anyone that's wanted to control what I say or do, and if they did, I just would say no, so yeah that'd be a disaster for them if they did their reputation would be destroyed it would be pretty obvious.
Michael:It would be, it would become pretty obvious. Pretty you're you actually go viral again.
Jason:I mean a video like that yeah all right. So, eric, I think you have the next question here.
Erick:Yeah, and just hearing about you talk about your YouTube journey which congratulations, man. The success you've had in the past three years has been crazy and it's awesome hearing that you're having fun doing it. I always admire people who find their passion and also find success in their passion. That's great. As a fellow content creator myself kind of you know on my own journey, I want to know about some of your, I guess, challenges that you faced on the content creator side yeah, I mean definitely a lot of challenges along the way.
Michael:I would say the biggest one and it always is is time. Yes, um, yes, there's a lot of things that if I had more time I could, you know it would be a lot easier, right? So a lot of the content creation, like, I have a full-time job right, I have a full-time career, and it's that is is still, for me, my number one priority.
Erick:That's you know same here my primary source of income.
Michael:I could not, uh, sustain the same life on the income from youtube, um, so that to me is a priority. And and when I do the youtube stuff that you know, that's sort of dedicated to my evenings and mostly the weekends, because I find during the evenings it can be tough. I spend a lot of my weekends doing sorry weeknights testing and racing and using hardware, and then the weekends is kind of when I do the filming process because it's a little more intensive. But yeah, time is a challenge. Yeah, I mean, when I started it was just sort of there was a lot of learning curves to overcome. Like I said, I had no experience with um doing any kind of content creation, let alone any kind of photography whatsoever.
Michael:So I, the camera that I have, that I, when I finally upgraded from the um iPhone, that was the first camera I ever owned. I bought a Sony camera. That this is the first camera I've ever had. I'm still figuring it out like I just I just recently dialed in, like I think I finally dialed in my color grading because my color was always off like reds, always looked orange, which is kind of a big deal for me. So that's my branding um, so I'm always like I'm still learning right now. Um, it's a constant journey, but I spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos about how to make YouTube videos, to kind of just get some tips on Final Cut or get some tips on audio, like anyone that's starting doing this. The amazing thing is is that if you're trying to start a YouTube platform, all the information to start a YouTube platform is on YouTube, which is crazy Already, it's right there.
Michael:You're home, but it's time. It's time and energy, right, like I'm not going to lie. There's nights where I get home after work I had maybe a busy day at work during the day and you have to fight Like I don't feel like it sounds silly because sim racing is fun it is. But sometimes you're like I don't feel like filming right now or I just don't feel like editing, I it um.
Michael:Some advice that another youtuber gave me was sort of like recognize those times when you're feeling kind of burnt out and just take that time. Don't force it, because it the content won't, it won't feel good, it won't look good. So I kind of respect those boundaries. That sometimes myself, when I don't have the energy, um, but there there is some pressure, right like it's busy. Now my schedule is busy because I want to review a lot of different things so that I can provide my audience with that content and that value. And the more products I review and get hands-on ultimately shapes my experience with them, right? So I'm constantly trying to do a lot, but I've I have to.
Jason:I've started to recognize when, okay, I need to step back a little bit yeah, so yeah, learning curve, time, just energy, that those are some great challenges I mean, I am a hundred percent brand new to content creation as well and I've already experienced that and I think we we've chatted before and I mentioned that sim racing is, you know, racing inside your rig. Sometimes it's good to just shut down the cameras, shut down the microphone and jump in the rig and just run the laps and have a blast, because that's how you got here. You know what I mean. That's how, not how you became successful, but that's that's where you got here. You know what I mean. That's how not how you became successful, but that's that's where it began.
Michael:You know what I mean that's no, it's the core and it's. It's easy and I don't speak for other sim racing youtube content creators, but I'm sure there are times where we get wrapped up in, you know, testing different hardware and doing different things, and sometimes it's just nice to sit down and go. I, I'm just going to do a race right now. You know I'm not going to turn off the cameras.
Michael:I'm not going to be taking review notes on the hardware, because when I'm testing I'm stopping the wait up guys, yeah, because when I'm using a wheel, when I'm sent a new wheel, like I'm driving, but I'm also thinking about how's this button feel, feel, how's this? You know, is there flex? You know, like I'm I have this eye for things now because that's, you know, that's important to me now, right, and but yeah, it's, look, I mean, it's a super fun job to have um to do, to do this. It's. I look forward to it. Obviously it for me it's it's still a passion project and it comes with more positives than anything close to negative for me. So, yeah, I'm grateful for the opportunities that I've had with it.
Michael:And yeah, and the community, like you know, the comments that I get really help. You know, like the negativity it's there Once you're online. There's going to be negative comments. It's so small compared to actually the positive, like hey man, great review, or love what you're online. There's going to be negative comments. It's so small compared to actually the positive, like hey man, great review. Or love what you're doing, like, and that stuff really is is really cool to see and it keeps me going Right, and the same reason why I was listening to you guys and dropped you that note, cause I liked what, liked what I heard and what, what you guys were doing, and and I think it's important that we that when you recognize something, you see something you gotta, you gotta call it out.
Michael:So that made our days, I hope you know, uh, michael, yeah, oh, and it made mine too to to kind of connect with you guys and then like, like here we are right having a nice conversation, so, oh, yeah, it's cool, yeah so yeah, that's.
Michael:I guess that's the journey. Uh, that's kind of the challenges. I think it's the same challenges for a lot of creators, but reviewing hardware is different. Right, like it's a lot of like. I've taken apart sim rigs more times than I'd like to think a lot of people like to have done it once.
Michael:Like you know, man and I'm not young, like I get sore, I'm bending down changing pedal sets and cursing and but it's fun, man, I love you know I I love, as the tinkering and the hardware and the technology side of this hobby, sometimes more than the racing like it's just really cool to get hands on a lot of different things and understand, you know what, how things are made, how they work. I find it very interesting.
Jason:So you got some skills, man.
Michael:I've seen a video where you built the uh, the roof for the rig, because I'm thinking about building one that was a really popular video and I was really surprised, like and it's funny when I, when I go on our facebook group, I see a lot of roofs that look very similar.
Jason:So, uh, I definitely I wasn't the first one.
Michael:Look, I wasn't the first one to build a sim racing roof, um, but there was definitely some inspiration from that and that's what I wanted, I like when I was clean dude, when I decided to build yeah, I was kind of really happy with it.
Michael:I'm not using it right now because it just doesn't really aid and when you're in and out of the rig filming content. It's not ideal, but I do miss it because, honestly, like just if you were just put a blanket over your monitors right now, anyone at home would you would automatically be more immersed. It's actually crazy how much of a difference it makes. It just it. You know it's not for everybody that wants it, but yeah, it was like I was came up with the idea to build it and then I think it was my dad I was talking to. He was like you're going to film that? Right, you should show people how you built it. I'm like no one wants to see a stupid thing I built.
Erick:That was me in the video.
Michael:The video was really popular. I think it was really cool. I think, at the very least, what it did was I was getting comments. People were like, oh, I see what you're doing, but I'm going to go do it differently. I'm like, yeah, go and and share it. You know, share it on our group, and that's kind of how the group got born. But yeah, so, yeah, it's cool, I got some skills.
Jason:I'm like you got some skills, man.
Michael:I love tinkering with stuff, like when I come up with something how to modify something on the rig. That's the thing about sim racing and a lot of people will say the same thing is that you can really kind of get creative. Everyone has their little things on their rig that are their little special touch, and I think that's awesome.
Jason:Jeff just built a fuselage for his rig.
Jeff:Oh no, way, wrapped it in carbon fiber yeah. That's sweet. I love that. Yeah, I do mostly formula racing so I was like, how can I make this thing feel more?
Jason:like a formula if you will yeah, it came out really nice. So, um, it's good to have him around because he helps me out with the little things like that, because I'm not good at it.
Jeff:I mean, to your point how you said you didn't have anybody around. You know like I'm super lucky when I got into it. Like Jason legitimately lives what less than a mile away, what are the odds? Like the other night. If I yell, I took my bike over there Loud enough and we had a couple cocktails and watched the Formula One race and I took the bike home, so I don't have to worry about you know, a couple cocktails, yeah, but it's it's.
Jason:It's super nice having somebody close by, so yeah, yeah, maybe at some point. Uh it that we all meet with each other like?
Jeff:a big expo.
Jason:I'm always dreaming about that. I don't know if we have one in the us or there you've got.
Michael:I forget the name of the show. It's, the show is, it's games no, no, no, it's a show that's more about the motorsports industry, but it's starting to become, uh, really popular for sim racing too, because, naturally, people that are in motorsports and pro drivers I forget the name of the show, um, but anyways it's not sima, is it?
Jason:no, it's another show, but motor, it's not motor trend, right? I don't know that's ours.
Michael:I think that's a european I didn't think about it. As soon as we turn this, off the cameras right, oh no, it's okay.
Jason:Yeah, we'll. We'll add that in the description below.
Michael:It's one that I want to go to, because it's not that very hard for me to go to the states. Like I'm going to germany actually this year for the adac, which is, um, I'm getting nervous about it's like in six weeks and I've never been to Germany, so that's going to be a while.
Michael:Oh, you're going to have a blast bro, I know You're going to have a blast. Just relax. I'm really looking forward to it. But I mean, I get anxiety traveling on a normal day. But yeah, I'm really excited about it and I'm taking my dad with me, which is going to be really cool because, you know it's it's because of him I'm got into all this stuff and, right, I'm looking forward to sharing the hobby with him a little bit more.
Michael:Like he kind of like gets it, but I I don't think he knows like the size of like what this is and all the different companies and what's out there. Like I'm gonna throw him in a bunch of motion rigs when we get there and see what happens. Um, and it's. It's a really important trip for him and me because he's been going on a lot of different health battles lately and he's finally in a place where he can travel again. So we're both really looking forward to kind of spending that time together and I'm looking forward to sharing the experience with him there.
Michael:So, yeah, it's going to be cool. But yeah, we definitely. Maybe all four of us can try to meet up somewhere in the States at some point. That would be cool.
Jason:It's got to be something in vegas, because you know, vegas is like the king of marketing, and when you want to show something off, you bring it to vegas. So I'm pretty I don't know. I don't know why there's the. You know it's not that there's nothing like it yet, or or that I know it's tough because all the manufacturers are most of them are based in europe and asia right yeah yeah
Michael:true, this is the this is the reason why we, you know, but I think, like we saw it at gamescom this year, which I think this is going to increase, is like the presence of sim racing at a at a gamescom like that. I haven't seen that before. Like moza showed up with all their new shiny stuff and a big you know booth. You guys covered it on, I think, the last episode. But, um, I think we'll see that. I think we're going to see sim racing enter more of these like games conferences, but I think it'll be a while before we see a dedicated sim racing conference in north america, just to the sheer fact that, geography wise, like these guys, head offices are all and manufacturing is in europe and asia.
Jason:So yeah, and to set everything out, a lot of them are in germany too, so that's why it's in germany yeah, and the us market is kind of it's growing.
Erick:But I mean it is but compared to, like this, motorsports in general, you know, in uk and asia, it doesn't compare over here yet yeah, european market is crazy, like I mean my.
Michael:If I look at my viewer demographics, it's like us, just because you guys are massive, um, and, and there's a market there for sim racing, so it's like us. And then germany, uk, australia and then like canada. My home country is like fifth, unfortunately, um, just because we're smaller, um, but yeah, it's germany and italy, like those are really popular places for sim racing. I can tell from the demographics that watch my, yeah, so yeah.
Jeff:So I got a quick question kind of follow-up to we were talking about the expos is somebody that's you're, so you know, tied in with kind of the industry? What do you see is like the next big advancement, if you will, in sim racing?
Michael:yeah, uh, it's a big question, jeff. Um, you know, I think. I think what's great is we, you know, as more companies have entered now the space, we're seeing more innovation. Right, we're seeing more uh options at that mid-range level, which I think is fantastic, which is making it easier for people to get into sim racing. Right, there's a lot of better entry level stuff coming out right now, mid-range. There's still crazy high-end stuff, but that mid-range is really interesting of what we're seeing. Right, I don't know the next big thing I mean vr is still really is is very popular in sim racing still, um, I haven't really personally gravitated to VR like as my primary method of sim racing yet, for a lot of reasons, comfort I still, even with some of the advanced headsets that are out there, I don't think the resolution and the frames are still it's not ready.
Michael:When it's comparable to triples I and with with hardware that you know, I think you're still going to need top-end computer hardware, but when we can get to a point where it's kind of starts to get even out um and the, the headsets are lighter, like I think the one the big screen beyond was the smallest one I've seen but still has compromises right. So until we can put on a glasses sized headset with zero compromises, like I think we're going to see that leap in vr. Like I don't feel like vr has gone through this quantum leap and I don't know, some people might know more about this than me. I'm just speculating, obviously, but I think vr is going to become more attainable and more popular in sim racing, um. But I think there's a lot on the software side that can we can see advancements on when it comes to the sims themselves, right, or how those can get smarter and better, and how are they going to implement all these new ai technologies into the software side of things could be really interesting to see.
Jason:So it'll be cool, like don't my problem, see, my thing with vr is you spend all this money on a wheel and all these peripherals that are around you and then you strap on a headset where you just can't see anything.
Michael:You know what I mean? Yeah, well, because we've we've built out our rig for the purpose of seeing it and experiencing it right now. If you were, if I was to start over again and build like I kind of experimented it with the test rig here, for for a while I kind of had it as a vr rig, so it didn't really, it didn't matter what was on it, it was more about what, all the feelings, and so I would build out a rig completely different and then that could you know, if that becomes a popular thing, you'll see hardware manufacturers come out with wheels that are more important for like tactile feeling and knowing which, like almost maybe they'll have like Braille on them to kind of know to signal what buttons are, which. It will be less about looks and it will be more about feel and functionality.
Jason:Right, because that will become more of a priority maybe well, I think I mean with ai tools and stuff like that, like maybe because vr headset has a ton of cameras on it, so maybe they can figure out a way to bring in your personal wheel in like a yeah, like an ar yeah, like an ar experience.
Michael:I thought about that.
Jason:Yeah, that way when you look down you can see your wheel, you can see your screens. That would change the game right there. I think no, yeah, that's the thing is I don't think we even know what's next.
Michael:Uh, I think that's gonna happen for sure. I think right now, what we're seeing is a lot of hardware, refinement hardware, getting better, right, moza, obviously now with, as you know we, we knew somebody was going to catch up with something in terms of the active pedal. Um, you know, we don't know. I don't have any information on it, so anything I see?
Jason:no, I was going to ask you that I don't know what it's going to cost.
Michael:I think that everyone's waiting for that. I don't, and so, like I said, I don't know what it's gonna cost. I think that everyone's waiting for that I don't and so, like I said, I don't have any information. This is just me talking I. I don't think it's going to be as cheap as what people think, but I also know it's going to be. I not know for sure, but I believe it's going to be more or less than semi-cube for sure honestly the price for the semi-cube one.
Jason:Well, I guess we could talk about this offline as well, but I'm really seriously thinking about getting that brake pedal, just the brake.
Michael:It's cool. Yeah, it's expensive, and I think it's interesting. I think it's good that we're seeing these companies come out with options.
Jason:Right, I'm just waiting on, if you get them, like in the mail or something, the moza ones to do the review and see how they you know how much they probably- will like.
Michael:It's like, it hasn't been confirmed, but, like with moza right now, they were in a relationship where they oh, you got, you got.
Jason:They send me every new product, yeah cool.
Michael:They send me. So I'm on their list of reviewers, which means I automatically get sent. Though they forgot about me on the vision gs wheel. I had to wait. There's the vision gs wheel damn, everybody got theirs and they're like oh, we forgot, we missed.
Erick:No, no, that's okay, don't forget man um, but anyways, I I don't know.
Michael:I said they may send with something like that because sometimes, when the hardware is a little more expensive, the companies will shrink the list of reviewers they send it to, because they just may not have that many review units. So I don't know. Look, I really hope I get one so that I can give all my viewers my thoughts on it and I can see what it is for myself, and then I'll really be able to make some opinions. But yeah, I think it's. I don't think it's gonna like anyone that thinks it's gonna be like less than 500. I don't know if that's realistic, but I don't know, maybe I'll be wrong I don't think so, because their their products.
Jason:they range in the how much is their pedals right now, if you're just talking the brake?
Michael:Yeah, I think the CRP2s that I have here are with a clutch. I think it's like 500 US, though right, so maybe For a full pedal set. So you know, this is going to be $1,000. Easy.
Jason:That's what I'm saying.
Michael:If it does what we think it does I didn't have hands on them at gamescom so I don't know but if it's pushing back and it's got a force feedback like the active pedal does, because that's the biggest thing, like the haptic pedal, the active pedal is not just haptics, it's pushing, it's fighting you, and and the ability to set different pedal profiles is, for me, the most, the thing I love about it.
Michael:the most like I will switch my pedal profile from a gt4 to a gt3, because a gt4 car has more travel, feels more like a road car preach it man so it's, it is like that I love mosa mosa's able to offer that same adjustability and profiles at a lower price range, then great.
Jason:You know what I mean, because that valuable data it's, it's super valuable. Like you know, dan Suzuki setups, I run on my ACC and and I racing and WRC and I take that and I that's my baseline, because this guy you know, he's a professional driver.
Michael:You know what? I mean it's the same like I run, uh, daniel morad daniel morad gt3 profile. You know, and I've spoken to him before, you know, I speak to him once in a while, we both live in toronto and, uh, you know, he said like this profile is like the closest to my real amg, tt3. And it's like, all right, I'll take your word for it.
Jason:That's cool, like he's a real.
Michael:He's a real driver, and so let me jump in there, be the judge of that. Though I encourage like a lot of people, I would say I would encourage people like play with settings and profiles, because to get the best performance out of yourself, you it may not, you may not be fast on daniel morad's profile, but but, for someone like me.
Michael:it's like you know, to take the time to set up something. I will, but when I jump in the AMG G3, I'm like I'm just going to use Daniel's profile because this is what it probably feels like in the car. So that's cool to know, right, like, that's just cool to know and that's kind of what we're all here.
Jason:We're just kind of pretend right a little bit for fun. Yeah, for sure, man. And now with this 360 hertz of feedback on iRacing, yeah, it feels good game changing. Seriously that that did it for me all right so I think it's, it's cool.
Michael:I think we're gonna, you know, a little bit of innovation and some copying, but it's, it's, it's all fair. It's all good. I think it's better for us as the consumers. Exactly.
Jason:Yeah, yeah, I mean the it's. We're the ones that are benefiting from this from other companies making things and making different things and and throwing it in the mix is making things and making different things and and throwing it in the mix, and you got a company like sim magic that's just watching everything and they'll come out with something, which we're hoping.
Michael:Right, but yeah yeah they're crazy yeah, there's a market for every. You know there's continuing. There's going to be that market still for simi cube, that that, uh, you know they're going to still have their unique things that they do and choices are good. Choices are good, so we can all just get on the track and race each other at whatever budget we can afford. That, you know, an experience we want to have.
Michael:So I think it's all a good thing that the industry is growing and the options are the options are growing and it's it makes it more important for for reviewers like myself to really take a critical look at these things too. Right, because it's a lot harder to make decisions and you can't go try these things like you can't just go down the street and go to the sim racing store and and try like five sets of pedals right so I I take what I do with a with a really big sense of responsibility too, that I am someone who gets access to review units, and I don't ever take that lightly.
Michael:I guess what I'm trying to say is that I know there's people out there that are looking for different perspectives, so I just try to give my um perspectives on it, and sometimes they'll be different than another person's, and that's okay. That's why I always say watch like 10, 5 reviews, watch more than one review when you want to buy something right and you still don't know.
Jason:You know what I mean and you, you, yeah, you watch five different reviews and you still have to take that risk with with some amount of money but yeah, for sure, but that's where it comes down to.
Michael:You know, you look at the, the, you know the things that are being repeated in reviews, the good things right things if they're coming up, and you know I think people are starting to get a sense of brands and brand quality. You know there's they're starting to become like an expectation, with certain brands, um, of what you're going to get, but you still, you still have to look critically at everything well said, man.
Jason:I mean, I still appreciate that. I appreciate the honesty because you you're you're helping the community by having access to these things, right, and you're actually giving your honest opinion and like really testing them out, like when you mentioned that you had a wall full of wheels, right, and then you also followed up with that. You actually go to your wheels and you compare. That's very you know, I didn't. I always thought that reviewers were like oh yeah, just look at my wheel collection back there and this is back there, yeah. But when you say that you actually go up to them and you put them in your hands and you feel the flex and you touch buttons and to make sure that you can give a fair comparison, is actually amazing. I think I respect that.
Michael:Yeah, no, it's the reason why, like and I don't I will never sell hardware financially gain from units that I'm sent for free, financially gain from from reunits that I'm sent for free. If, if I get rid of something, I'll be probably just giving it away to somebody, um, that needs it or in some form of a giveaway. I don't know how I'll do that, but the thing is that I have to. I do keep a lot of things, uh, in storage here, especially pedals, because what happens is a new pedal set comes out. You want to go back and try some other pedals and and run through some comparisons. So it's good to have them here, and that's kind of why you know having these things is useful. It's it, it it doesn't, it's not to flex like the yeah, the wheels look like.
Michael:Obviously I set up the pegboard with the wheels because it looks cool. It's a, it's a sim racing studio. Why, why? Who wouldn't do that?
Jason:it's just the perception, you know. Yeah perception.
Michael:I think people they just they see something and they don't really. Yeah, of course it looks cool, of course is it a privilege to have these wheels, absolutely, but there is a I try to make the best out of what I've got here and and the experiences and the opportunities to try to do something really cool with this channel and do something that's helpful and that and I like and I like making videos that I think look nice, and so that's why my production and the way I do it is because I just enjoy that process, that creative process, and I try to fill that with as much information. But I think you and I, jason, we talked about I really want to show close-ups of a lot of products.
Michael:I want you to see the grain on the metal and the buttons so that you really know like what you're buying is like what it's going to look like up close when you get it in the light, not just like a marketing shot that is in the dark and you can't really see the wheel.
Jason:So I try to… and all its imperfections or whatever. Yeah, review, you're gonna get some close-up shots, so yeah you're gonna look good yeah all right, man, wow, I'm, I'm, I'm ecstatic that you're here. First of all, thank you so much. Um, wow, I don't know what to say right now. Guys, do you have any more questions for michael?
Erick:I have. I have one question um yeah, what color is your asr pro?
Michael:it's just the uh, infinite black, like um infinite black. At the time, they only had the green color, which I was.
Erick:Yeah, that's the one I see everywhere it looks cool.
Michael:I've seen it up close at asr. Uh, actually a a friend of mine. I helped him build, uh, a setup for his son and we ordered the white one for him and the white one looks fire like it it's. I don't know, it might be hard to keep clean, like if you scratch it it's gonna be noticeable, so you gotta be careful with it.
Jeff:Yeah, the white one looks cool.
Michael:But yeah, I've got the infinite black. It's got a bit of a metallic finish, so I compare it to like a car the, the way asr does their finish like they. They have actual like paint booth for cars at their factory and they clear coat it and it's like really protected so, yeah, yeah, I got the asr one, that's my first rig, it's still what.
Erick:I'm on right now yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Jason:I looked at those. It's just they wouldn't ship to Hawaii. That was the problem.
Michael:Oh, they didn't. I wonder if they do now. I don't know, I mean. So what's cool about them? And they were like free shipping in North America.
Jason:Yes, that's why I picked them up, and that was for the lower 48, bro.
Michael:Yeah, that's tough.
Jason:Yeah, I mean there's a lot of places that are outside of that Lower 48 problems. Man, there's nobody that feels bad for us. No, I feel bad. You want to live over there, Okay?
Erick:Yeah right yeah. You can live on a postcard every day.
Jason:Oh, snap yeah, I guess.
Michael:Yeah there's oh snap yeah, I guess.
Jeff:Yeah, that's a trade-off, right? Hey, michael, I got one more question. I always think it's interesting. We got we kind of we did this around the table the other day is you got 30 minutes? What game, what track? And what's your third way? If you got 30 minutes to jump in the rig, what are you doing?
Michael:yeah, I mean, and I sometimes I only have 30 minutes, um, I mean, I'm a I'm a porsche guy, so for me, I love driving the right now the porsche 911 gt3 r992, so, like the latest generation, generation, um, and my favorite track is spa. I've always loved spa. Wait, wait, wait, I racing. Right, I racing. Oh, I, yeah. So I'm like I should have started with that. I racing is my go-to sim. Okay, like, obviously, like when I test hardware, I do jump in a lot of different sims, but when it comes to me personally, I still prefer I racing over everything. It just like, it just feels right to me, it just feels good, it just there's something about it. The graphics yes, we all know they need work.
Jason:It looks like it's coming there you kind of forget about the graphics, though you kind of like I mean, look, they're not.
Michael:You focus on the track and just they could be worse, but they obviously they could be worse, he says.
Michael:But they, uh, it's, there's been some improvements, for sure, but you do forget about it because a lot of times when you're in your rig, you know you're looking at your wheel and you, just you become immersed in the racing and because it feels so, if it didn't feel as good as it did, it would not. They probably would not be doing well. Um, but everybody knows that, like competitive racing and and what you get from iRacing, yes, it costs money, but, um, they're developing that game regularly, right?
Jason:it's a training tool we're getting yeah, it is.
Michael:I mean, and I've talked to a number of different pro drivers that are um heavy into sim racing and the answer is always the same iRacing. So there's a reason. They and they said it's not perfect either, like they've made criticisms about certain aspects of of you know and and certain cars, they've said, feel better than others. You know, like you know and Daniel Amore had said the same thing with like certain cars he's driven in real life and then drove in iRacing he's like and it's not quite like that, but you know the AMG is pretty good, but it so I don't know. For me, I racing spa, porsche 911, probably do like a gt3 race and but the other thing I love doing multi-class like gt4s with the lmp3s, it's a nightmare something's a death trap, man, it's a death trap but I like being in the gt4s and I just try to get out of the way for the you see them flying by
Michael:yeah, I mean, I like driving, so I really like driving the lmp3, I like being the prototype guy too and I'll I kind of go back and forth, um. But yeah, spa is always my favorite track. You'll notice if you watch any of my reviews, especially when I'm testing new hardware. I use spa a lot just because it's. It gives me a consistent platform when I'm testing different hardware to see how they feel it makes sense so yeah and spa.
Michael:Like spa is one of the tracks I know the best and they and spa just got um you drove the new track work. Update the refresh. I haven't done it yet actually what are you waiting? For bro. I know well I've been. I'm doing this right now.
Jeff:I'm a big fan, I'm going on it today it is worth it.
Jason:It's worth your time. I've got to keep testing the CRP2 pedals.
Michael:So I think I'm going to hit spa and try out the new scanner or whatever.
Jason:Yeah, they did a really good job and it doesn't really. I thought that you know when they start updating graphics that it might bog down the system a little bit, but it didn't nothing, I didn't notice anything. It's just beautiful now and, yeah, up to date, and probably it's the only game that has like the latest version of spa, because they change all the time. Little things here and there change yeah, they do change.
Michael:I mean they change some things on on au rouge, I think for the safety yeah, you're racing on a 2010 version, right, yeah? Yeah, it's not, it's not before this you know, yeah, they're what it looks like today.
Michael:Um, so yeah, I think it's cool what they're doing. I mean, they go out and they've got drones and they they scan these things like. So that's the thing. Like you know, yes, iracing is expensive, but I don't know. I mean, I it seems like they're doing a lot. I mean, they're pretty transparent. They're always sharing their development updates and what they're working on they're. They're picking up and hiring developers from these big game studios to come work for them right they're.
Michael:They're, I mean they're making a lot of money like they're they're doing fine, um, but they're I. I feel like they're trying to develop it, they're trying to improve it. They know the graphics are not great, we're gonna get there. I mean, it's gonna put a little bit of strain on some people's hardware and I think that's one of the things they said. They were trying to balance like with like, not trying to like isolate some people that are on lower hardware, because you can run iRacing on lower hardware and that's a nice advantage. But to keep up, eventually there's going to have to be a compromise, a give and a take, right, and that's just how it goes right.
Jason:Right, yeah, you have to keep up you know, yeah so.
Michael:We'll see. We'll see what happens, but I think it's exciting what they're doing.
Jason:All right, just see, we'll see what happens, but I think it's exciting what they're doing. All right, pushing out new stuff, wow, man. So I mean you, my, my only question for you, my only final question, was the, the most adaptive pedals, and that was I was hoping. I was hoping that, that that you had them yet, or or no?
Michael:I have no information, I don't think actually make it sure. I don't know if anyone has them yet or or no.
Jason:I have no information. I don't think actually make it sure. I don't know if anyone has them yet.
Michael:Um, they may be. Maybe some of the other reviewers have got one, um, but yeah, I mean I'm definitely curious to try it because I mean I definitely am. Always when I get products that are sort of like firsts, you know, it's always more interesting, right, you know you test so many of the same types of things and there's different variations, but I always find it interesting and exciting to try sort of first products. Like the first time I tried active pedals was, you know, really interesting because it's like, okay, this is like a new thing, even like the seatbelt thing. I'd never tried a seatbelt thing. I'm like this is okay, this is going to be different. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what they're like. Um, you know, I know a lot of people are really looking forward to this because it's they're thinking this is an attainable active pedal for less money. Right, we'll see. We'll see what that, what that means and what that make, what that is awesome.
Jason:Well, michael, I just want to, on behalf of the podcast here, I want to thank you for making the time today to come out here and have a conversation with us. It's been an absolute blast the whole way, and the fact that you emailed us a few weeks prior or not even like two weeks prior to this recording and recognizing a smaller group of content creator it, it really opened my heart to it. I was. I probably read it maybe five or six times and I was like I couldn't believe it. Like so, just by seeing you here now sitting down with us in a virtual space, by the way, um is amazing. Um, I just wanted to thank you and, um, if there's anything else, do you have anything else for us? The? Is there anything you want to ask? Uh, the chicane podcast.
Michael:Uh no, I mean, I just want to say the same thing, like, thank you, it's been my pleasure, um, to come on a guest. I think you know the way you guys go about this is incredibly professional and really, really cool. But at the core, I could see how much fun you guys are having and the friendship that you guys have made, so appreciating you, letting me kind of be a part of it today and, um, welcoming me on, and so, yeah, I'm so glad I reached out to you. I think that's you know, that's how these things happen and I'm sure I'd like to keep a relationship with you guys. Keep in touch.
Michael:Um, the one thing I wanted to just shout out was the? Um, the sim racing setups group. So, if you want to, I would encourage anyone listening. They want to come, share their setup, get some you know feedback or, you know, talk some stuff out with other sim racers. We try to make it a really welcoming environment. Um, I want to shout out my moderators, daniel matt and amit. I could not manage that sim racing group without them. They honestly are in there trying to keep it clean. We really try to keep it clean in terms of spam and just, you know, harassment, bullying, just nonsense, it's a little hard on Facebook or any platform.
Michael:But I'm telling you, we really like we will dig into conversations and find those those nasty comments. But I'm telling you, we really like we'll dig into conversations and find those those nasty comments and it's like, uh, if it the comments really bad or the attitude is just wrong, it's like Nope, you're out, no three strikes. It's like we, we, so we.
Michael:I think by taking that approach, we've tried to really keep it a uh, a welcoming place and a lot of people have said that it is so um, I'm happy and proud of what that group has grown to, so I would encourage anyone come share your setup, come say what's up, post a picture. Your setup doesn't matter. If you got motion or you're starting your first setup, you made it out of wood in your garage. We want to see it, man. We want to see it because we all start somewhere.
Michael:So okay so sim racing setups on facebook and um. Yeah, check out the sim racing down on youtube if you like, and um come yes, I'll add all of those in the description, for sure.
Erick:Yeah, and I can personally attest to the assimilation setup group. When I first was gonna dive in deep talking to jason you know he is when you talked about being a salesman I'm like jason missed his calling because he can he can sell water we can't go on episode eric.
Jason:We can't.
Erick:It's either you or jeff, or it's like look, someone's getting sold on something he'll blame me I'll tell you but uh, but just doing research, especially with you know, the fan attack stuff that was going on. The simulation setups group was great for one. It was so big but also just getting to see everybody set up just combinations of things. But also the thing that kind of stuck out to me, even before you mentioned it was it's one of the groups where there's no like real toxicity. If you guys have, you know, 116 000 members in there and it'd be on facebook and you go in there and people post. I mean, you just create an environment where people post everything. So the guy that built a custom rig out of wood, the guy that went to the junkyard and snatched a dash out of a car and built something yeah, there's some beetle when I I scroll through the photos it is wild, like I.
Michael:I'm just so impressed sometimes with the, the level of like craftsmanship and creativity, like the some of the setups I see. It's like I get lost in there. But yeah, if you're trying to avoid spending money, also don't spend too much time in there, because you're gonna see some stuff like like even I. I saw a couple setups. I'm like, oh, that's cool, I never thought about doing that, like.
Michael:So that's, and that's honestly what I wanted it to be. The group started off as somewhere to just sort of uh, wanted a place for my viewers to share their setups and discuss, and it became more than that. So yeah, but yeah, like I said, I couldn't do without the moderators. Like we really try to keep that toxic toxicity out and try to make it a better place and that and that takes a lot of work. Like we're in there, I get five minutes for a coffee. I'm in there like checking posts, like that's, it's like an all day thing, honestly.
Erick:So, yeah, yeah, we appreciate it, man.
Michael:Yeah, absolutely Glad to hear that.
Jason:All right, all right, then. With that again, I just want to say thank you again, and thank you all for listening as well. Please email us at the chicane podcast at gmailcom, and have a great start of your week, thank you.
